Syria next then?

[chuckskull]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14360027

Terrible atrocities in Syria, again, this week. This time met with very public condemnation from the US, who'd been a bit muffled til now IMO and demands for a security council meeting from other nations.

Setting the stage for another Libyan style air campaign?

As much as my heart bleeds for these people, I'm not sure the right answer in the long term is bombing every Arab nation in the middle east, even before we get to the civilian casualties, resentment and myriad other problems of such an action in terms of achieving the desired effect, see; Libya. Frankly we can't afford it and Britain opening a 4th front doesn't seem like a great idea to me. 2 caused enough problems, we're already overstretched and our military is shrinking almost by the week.

Even if bombing was the right course of action it should really be their neighbours, but sadly the only stable, secular, democracy in the Middle East with the firepower to undertake such an action, is hated by, well, the Middle East.

Honestly I'm not sure what the answer is, but we've been down this road before and I'm reticent about repeating the trip. Part of me says the goals are laudable and worth a high price and would love to see freedom and democracy throughout the Middle East, but another part worries that it's doomed to fail, we're throwing good money after bad and anything we create will never be truly stable as we created it, not them.

So could we, should we, will we?

[pp05]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14360027

Setting the stage for another Libyan style air campaign?

Honestly I'm not sure what the answer is, but we've been down this road before and I'm reticent about repeating the trip. Part of me says the goals are laudable and worth a high price and would love to see freedom and democracy throughout the Middle East, but another part worries that it's doomed to fail, we're throwing good money after bad and anything we create will never be truly stable as we created it, not them.

So could we, should we, will we?

Syria is no Libya.

[shadowmaster]

Humanitarian intervention = dropping bombs to save lives

No leave them, one day proper democracy will come to the Middle East but it wont be us that brings it. Our foreign policy has brought nothing but misery to these people, most of the dictators there including Mubarak were at one point and/or still are being supported by us*. Whilst I think humanitarian intervention is sometimes needed, history has shown that when we claim to do it, we fail miserably and its often noted that ulterior motives are present, and when we really should we dont. Case Point Darfur.

*I mean the USA mainly.

[chuckskull]

Syria is no Libya.

Care to expand on that? I never said it was btw, but I can see it being handled the same way, the familiar pattern is emerging already; condemnation, resolution, explosion.

It's certainly stronger militarily, but still no match for a coalition force.

[chuckskull]

Humanitarian intervention = dropping bombs to save lives

No leave them, one day proper democracy will come to the Middle East but it wont be us that brings it. Our foreign policy has brought nothing but misery to these people, most of the dictators there including Mubarak were at one point and/or still are being supported by us*. Whilst I think humanitarian intervention is sometimes needed, history has shown that when we claim to do it, we fail miserably and its often noted that ulterior motives are present, and when we really should we dont. Case Point Darfur.

*I mean the USA mainly.

Yes some of the worst regimes in the middle east are still our close allies and exert a worrying amount of influence over us. Saudi Arabia being the obvious example. Got to agree with there being value in coming to democracy themselves sadly, as history proves, despots rarely relinquish power without a fight. Outside influence in such things almost always seems to taint and undermine the results. Then again, as technology progresses the gulf between the despot and rebel in terms of military power only grows. What exactly can rebels do against someone with 5000 MBT's and 500 aircraft.

Darfur is a black mark against every free nation on the planet.

[roachcoach]

I doubt it, look at the cluster**** Libya has become. I said it when it started, the only way that is getting sorted out is with troops on the ground otherwise it will head for a quagmire.

Besides which, armies conquer, armies do not 'keep peace'. The sooner people learn this, the better. There are notable exceptions, but the generalisation stands.

[badass]

How about tightening sanctions further and them carpet bombing them. With aid like food, basic medical supplies etc along with a a bit of propaganda.
Food, basic medical supplies etc are a lot cheaper than cruise missiles.

[chuckskull]

I always liked that old Bill Hicks skit asking why we have laser guided bombs but no laser guided bananas. I'd link it but as much as love Bill he's not the most 'family friendly' comedian.

Tanks went back in today, security council is meeting this afternoon, even Russia has joined the condemnation. Unusual for them. Who knows if they'll back any intervention though.