Age of Consent

[spikegifted]

The British - that's the parents, the education system and even older kids - have this problem with communicating and educating yound kids about sex. It's almost like a taboo...

I agree with fondie that we need to somehow educate kids about sex, but clearly the current method of education is somewhat lacking. Kids don't want to be given condesending or patronizing lessons about sex! No, they want it straight and they want it fast. So give it to them, straight. Don't give them those lines like those seen in That'll teach 'em: "Self-abuse is wrong! Self-abuse is immoral! God said so!!"

No!! Give it to them like it is: "You want to 'relieve' yourself? Fine, just don't make a mess on the sheets - someone has to clean it up, you know!" or "You want to send your regards to Mother Hand and her lovely Five Daughters? That's ok! Everyone does it or have been doing it - since time began. It's good for your blood pressure... Just clean up the mess afterwards, though." or "Want a bit of visual aid to help you out when you're doing the business? Fine. Here's some p0rn0. Just remember, these guys and gals are professionals so don't even think you can do what they do, right?"

Why bother hiding this rather enjoyable activity? And I don't mean 'relieving' yourself - I'm talking about sex. It's great! It's enjoyable! For god's sake, it gives you cadiovascular exercise, it can make you reasonably fit, it give you and your partner a good time (if you guys can figure it out) and it can make you feel happy (thanks to all the hormones released during the process of sex). What more do you want?

Not talking about doesn't make the 'problem' go away. Not talking about make people ignorant of the 'problem'. Not talking about produces generations of teenage mothers. I've actually met a grandmother who's in her late 30s!! It is exactly because people don't talk about it or talk about in such taboo terms that the meaning is completely lost in the hide-and-seek process!

It is by talking to kids about sex in a sensible manner, one which doesn't hide behind stupid taboo, that you get the message across - "Sex is great, just be careful! Take the necessary precautions and you'd have many years of enjoyment. Good hunting!!" Kids, teenager in particular, don't want to be treated like monkeys. They want your respect, your understanding, your support and, most of all, your willingness to empower them. If you don't talk to them about what they need to know, in this case - about sex, you're actually hindering their developments and you're allowing them to make the most horrible mistakes.

Yes, people are stupid, but the individual is intelligent (in most cases). Educating or talking about sex is a one-to-one process - the most appropriate by the parents to their kids. But in most cases, the parents don't know what to tell the kids! All because they don't even talk about sex openly between themselves.

It was a long time ago, when I was 19, when my mom (who's a committed Christian) said to me: "I know you're going to sleep with women. I don't want to know if you've already slept with women. All I want to tell you is - don't make someone's 'tummy big' if you don't plan to and don't go and catch diseases." It was simple; it was direct and I got the message. I'm no wiser than others, but I got the message. God bless you, mom.

[eldren]

That line of argument can easily be turned around. Why bother hiding this rather enjoyable activity? I'm talking about drugs / underage drinking. "Drugs are great, just be careful, don't overdose." "If you like drinking, go ahead, just don't drive."

Of course teenagers want respect and support. And of course they're not going to get it for those activities their parents don't agree with or condone, or are downright illegal. Just because a teen makes a bad choice, doesn't mean they should automatically get respect and support for it. Help them deal with consequences (Drug addiction, for example), sure, but don't condone the entire activity, so as to make the teens "right," let them feel better about themselves and what they've done.

On the subject of one-on-one education, I agree fully. Sadly, it's gotten to the point where the schools are teaching sex education, even beginning with non-sexual basics like AIDS to those just starting school. This, for many parents, allows them to delegate yet another portion of their responsibility to their children to the schools. This is not right, as evidenced by the adverts run in this country, where various well-known people will have a short message ending in "Love them enough to talk about sex."

And now, for some details:

For Christian households, porn cannot be justified. The Bible states that "to lust after a woman is to commit adultery with her in your heart." Porn is quite effective at inciting lust, wouldn't you think? For non-Christian families, the matter of allowing their children free-reign with porn would be debatable. Some would argue that porn can be addictive, but, overall, the choice would come down to what the parents feel is right.

As far as masturbation is concerned, I see nothing wrong with it. Some Christians will veto it, saying that it's a sin as far as the Bible is concerned, yet the Bible says "flee from sexual immorality," a line other translations have as "flee from fornication." No mention of masturbation.

The people in the porn. I personally believe that even 18 is too young. How many times have you heard the phrase "barely legal teens?" It's as if that segment of the porn industry tries to cater to paedophiles. And that's exactly what it does, where the younger the model looks, the better. I feel, for that reason, the age limit for being in porn should be raised to 21, or something similar.

[spikegifted]

Why are you talking about drugs and drinking? Having too much sex or mastubate too often will not kill you - but both drugs and drinks will kill you. These are very different issues and you're using my examples for one situation and substituted them into another one. Poor show!

Teenagers and kids need support and respect, etc, even before they make mistakes. By the time they are able to make mistakes, it's too late to give them support and respect as they don't think they need them from the parents anymore.

Just like anything in life, excess usage of porn is not good. If parents allow their kids to use porn, they should make it clear that these guys are actors - they're portraiting something that is not real life. Watching Superman movie doesn't mean there're people flying overhead un-aided. Likewise, the same logic should applied to porn.

I'm glad you agree with me on the roles of the parents. Delegating parental responsibility to formal organized education media is negligence on the parents' part.

There are number of other issues you raised in your post. I'd love to answer them, but I don't think this thread is the right place for them, so I'll keep them to myself...

[eldren]

I draw the comparison between drugs/drinking and sex for the reason that, in emotionally immature teens, they are just as dangerous. Teenage pregnancies and STDs both ruin lives, and are more likely to occur when sex is irresponsibly had.

Sure, education has the potential to allow teens to make informed choices. But more often than not, it's just ignored. Also, this same education must not be seen as condoning sexual activity.

True, most porn falls far from how sex really is, and sure, tell them that. However, I personally feel that porn shouldn't be given to teens at all.

[Russ]

thing is, the sun is still gonna rise and fall, nothing gonna stop it, unless they gave kids free condoms to cut the risk, but in turn that may incourage them. funny old world aint it

[spikegifted]

Unfortunely, IMHO, giving kids free condoms is going to do jack!! It's like giving someone a gun doesn't make him/her a murderer...

[laura]

In regards to the article - at least they were both 14, rather than one kid and a grown up.

In reagrds to the comment - it should be 18 and that would stop most if not all teenage pregnancies, yeah right - there are alot of teenage mums under 16 - people who ignor it now aren't going to suddenly say ooh, the legal limit is 18 now, must stop doing this and take note of the limit because 18 is so much more important. Half the time people do stuff BECAUSE they're not meant to - it's the thrill for some people of doing something that you aren't meant to.

[sexeh]

it dosen't matter what age it is legal, kids will do it anyway. still being at school i know that people directly disobey the law just because they think it's good. but to me 16 sounds about right.

[Bazzlad]

Porn thing, simple answer I think:
Softcore at 16
Hardcore at 18

[pikacu]

I think age of consent should be 16 years or older. since at that age, one will be able to understand and able to judge things.

[[R4A]Bigman]

OK, first of all im 17. I've been brought up very well (I believe), but by two parents who seem pretty reluctant to talk about sex. I lost my virginity at 16, which is perfectly legal, but saying that, it would have been sooner if I could have had it that way. As it happens I had (and still have) a sensible girl friend. She lost her virginity at 14. I believe she was probably only sensible with me about it because she regrets having had sex so early. Shes now 19.

Personally, I think that the 16yr age limit counts for jack rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish when it comes to teens having sex. As its been said before, if they want to, they will. Its perfectly true. And the only way of 'fixing' the problem of teenager pregnancy would be to temporarily sterilise everyone until they went to a Clinic to have it removed. Altho this wouldnt stop teens having sex. Nor would it make them inclined to wear a condom (if anything it would give them less reason to do so).

I've had some pretty nasty experiences when having sex (condoms broke etc), and that is NOT nice. That kind of thing definately brings it home to you.

At school I never recieved any kind of sex education, and I wouldn't be suprised if this was the case for thousands of kids every year. Also, from talking to friends, the extent of sex education is:

This is a penis, boys have it and they stick it in this. This is a vagina, and girls have it. Wear a condom because otherwise you will get nasty colds and little kids. Don't have sex until you are 16 / married because its nawty. Praise God.

This is NOT any sort of decent education. Firstly, they are 12/13, they already know wot a dick is, and where to stick it, and also that its REALLY GOOD and they really wanna do it. They also 'know' that STDs don't sound all that bad, and it'll never happen to me, same with the kids. And, is it just my experience, or is every single one of these vids they show people by some Christian group or other? It puts a lot of people off any advice if there are possible alternate agendas going on.

I've thought about this before, and I'm sure that adults are not the people who need to be talking to kids about this. It needs to be older teenagers. People with experience. Tell it to them real, make real assumptions, and give them the facts straight. Or maybe a liberal website which schools could point kids to would be a good idea.

I think SpikeGifted has made many good points (so read his posts ). I agree with them all, except for the drugs and alcohol. With respect to that issue, the same rules need to be applied to drugs and alcohol as to sex. A decent education.

As for porn, whats the problem? I've seen the stuff from probably 13 or 14. Its a good masturbation tool. Teens who dont masturbate are violent and angry from my experience, coz there is a hullova lot of sexual drive there. As for the age limit on filming porn, I agree that its stupid that you can shag when your 16, but only film it when your 18. Well heres the thing: You shag when you like, even if your 14. If you film it and release it you will get VERY bollocked by the authorities. It encourages other crimes if u are under 18, so I agree with this law (even tho i didnt see the point in it until recently, and didnt agree with it either).

Rape is wrong. Hang, draw and quarter rapists. Consenting sex is the only sex which is ok. And this is, imo, ok whenever. However, porn could have the adverse affect of little 8yr old John sticking his wooha in little 7yr old Mary's mouth because they have seen it on some dirty flick. Unlikely tho, just dont put it in mainstream media until little John and Mary are asleep.

In reference to the article, the kids seem pretty damn stupid, and obviously didn't know wot they were getting into. They shouldn't be prosecuted for having sex, they should be prosecuted for being idiots. This particularly made me crack up:

"The teens even 'challenged' the woman to call police. So she did."

Typical.

Also, as far as maturity goes, I happened to catch Teen Big Brother: The Experiment on Channel 4 last night. These are all 18yr olds, and the vast majority of them seem pretty immature and stupid. The girls more than the lads imo. In fact last night two of them had sex (on national tv), without a condom I assume. It just goes to show how there are probably 14yr olds out there who are imo perfectly fine to have sex, and then there are 26yr olds who are still too damned immature to even contimplate having a legal snog.

Tell it to kids straight, get to them personally, make sure they take it in, and they will grow up and mature much quicker.

If you got this far congradulations, I have typal diorrea! Phew.

[G4Z]

to be honest, I think that the age of consent is not a moral issue its a sociatal one, In the past it has been common for kids to marry as young as 12 and have kids by the time they are 13 (the kids thing still tends to happen now and again) and in many other cultures its the same to this day. I personally think that 16+ is probably the right age but imo I think this should be a guideline rather than the law. i think education about sex and everything that goes with it should be more detailed and start eariler, we should be trying to get rid of this taboo about sex. (after all sex is a natural thing to do) I also think there is no reason to differenciate between gay`s and straights, if the age of consent is 16 for one it should be for the other, that is part of living in a democratic fair society. in the case in the article, I really cant see why they consider prosecuting them to be "helping" them. I think its far more likely to just cause more problems in the long term.

as to the age of consent beinga guideline, obviously you couldnt implement that until we have implemented proper education to support it. We all know what would probably happen if we aboloshed it over night. If as a society we belive 16 is the right age, we should be teaching this to younger generations and not forcing it on them.

also wanna say that I agree with spike on how the education would go entirely, sounds like a great idea. The p0rn issue is one I have intimate experiance with (hehe) I watch it all the time and have done since I was... ohhh 9 or 10 I think when i got my first razzlle. Myself and my girlfriends often watch a bit of p0rn together and it is great stuff. I think its healthy and to deny this to hormone ravaged teenagers is just madeness, i was soooooo much more horny back then and i was chasing every thing in a skirt anyway so I dont see hopw being deprived of p0rn was gonna help. The actors thing... well at 16 you can geta job, at 17 join the army and die, so to be honest I dont see why you cant combine the working and sex thing. seems reasonable to me, I remember when I was 16, and i was doing most the things I do now, I had a part time job, I was having sex, and I was getting drunk, If I could have been a p0rn star, i would have.

[[R4A]Bigman]

Aye, perhaps you would have been a porn star back then when you were 16, but would you still be as happy to do so now? If you had become a porn star would you regret it now?

Otherwise I must totally and wholeheartedly agree with your post. In the interests of education for all and the greater good (etc etc), anyone who wants to write an article or two for a sex ed website should contact me ( r4a_bigman@hotmail.com ).

[G4Z]

well.... to be honest... yeah I would be a p0rn star now.
I doubt my g/f would be too happy, but lets face it, its every mans pre-programmed genetic dream isnt it? I like my current job, but would be nice to ditch the 9 till 5 and spend the day shagging women.

Oh and I couldnt belive TBB, the thing I couldnt get over was the fact they were all 18, I assumed they were still in school!
Im sure I wasnt like that when I was that age after all, it wasnt that long ago, only 4 years. my g/f turned 20 2 months ago and i have been going with her for like, 3 and a half years. and I know she wasnt like that at 18 and 19.

also couldnt belive who won it, imo he was the most irritating one, I think that blonde lass deserved to go on the trip like, she seemed quite nice (nice too look at as well... )