Should the NHS pay for treatment for Lung Cancer

[nichomach]

The collection method'd be pretty intriguing...after all, the Government collects duties on alcohol and tobacco at the point of sale...

[Zak33]

.... smokers should pay billions per year extra in taxation that non-smokers profit from,

thats what I am on about. How on EARTH do I...thats ME....benefit from Smokers paying all that tax?

Which part of my life is better because of smokers? Which part of my existance should I thank smokers for?

And if, as I believe, I CANT thank them for anything, BECAUSE I still have to wait so long for any Public Services, NHS included, the money from smoking can't be ging back into NHS services, can it?

If it IS, then why are we trying to stop people from smoking with Nation Anti Smoking Capaigns. If Smoking pays such excellent rates of tax INTO the NHS coffers (I know the tax is high..not arguing that) then why is it so bad?

[Kumagoro]

Well of course they should get treated but they shouldnt get lung transplants.
Just like George best shouldnt have had a liver transplant for being an alchy.

Unless there is no one else who needs it and it will just get disposed of

[Zak33]

Its bad because Smokers are taking all the money that should be used for other cases. Cases of people who became ill through no fault of their own.

And before anyone cites Alocholism, you are right. Alcoholics are just as bad. The duty being paid however, in also not covering the alcohol related NHS bill .It probably does cover the actually Liver problem bill, but not the Pub Fights and the booze fueled rages people go into.

Smoking is known to cause a vastly higher rate of health problems than not smoking. Right?
Smokers pay high rates of tax, right? Do you truly believe that one pays for the other?

It seems from your above statement that you think it MORE than pays for itself. In which case, why is the health service in a worse state now that tax is high, and not in a better state? Could it be that smokers are using more funds than ever before?

[nichomach]

If it IS, then why are we trying to stop people from smoking with Nation Anti Smoking Capaigns. If Smoking pays such excellent rates of tax INTO the NHS coffers (I know the tax is high..not arguing that) then why is it so bad?

Because it increases the likelihood of life threatening illnesses occurring; and part of the Government's public health role is to warn people that certain things are bad for them, and to provide assistance in getting people to stop doing those things. And the revenue from smoking DOES go into the NHS. It is not hypothecated funding in the sense that you can say "this penny from this packet of cigarettes goes to that health authority", but it is STILL going into the pool of taxation from which health services draw their funding and it is additional taxation which only smokers pay.

And that money builds hospitals and pays for health service employees (among other things). So yes, smokers pay extra, and yes, that benefits the Health Service.

And you're still arguing that having paid extra, smokers should be denied access to those services.

And no, Zak, given that the incidence of smoking is falling and has been for many years, smokers are NOT using more resources than ever before.

[Zak33]

yes...because if NO ONE SMOKED...and therefore no tax came from it...the NHS service would be in BETTER CONDITION.

The things that Smoking creates, such as lung cancer, heart diease, are expensive to sort.

I'd be prepared to bet a country with no tobacco, and therefore no tax from its sale, but similar to the UK in every other way, would have a better, wealthier, healthier NHS.

[nichomach]

But you have nothing - no facts, no figures, nothing - to support that, right? It's just what you would like to be true since it would be what supported your argument.

[Zak33]

ditto Nicho my dear chap....you cant point out that it would be better....you have failed to produce the figures that account for all the taxation from tobaccos sales improving my life, and my health service.

Dont think you are fighting any farer than I....do you?

[nichomach]

I can show £8bn in revenues that only smokers pay. You, apparently, can show...nothing.

[Zak33]

If to smoke is to improve the NHS, then we should all START smoking....no?

If to stop smoking is actually better for us, then the NHS will lose out, right?

[Moby-Dick]

I'm pretty sure that smokers generate more revenue than they cost the government.

but as a motorist , you'd also be denied ( as would I , twice because I smoke ) due to all those nasty carcinogenic substance your mobile environmental disaster spew out ( note the sarcasm here ) - cigarette smoke is not the only cause of lung cancer.

As nicho says - fi the government removed the tax on tobacco , then they have every right to charge smokers extra.

Are you going to deny overwieght people access to healthcare untill they slim down ?

while you are at it , you could force all disabled foteuses to be aborted - you'd save a bucket on health care that way ?

brave new world here we come !!

[Zak33]

you cant show it going into the NHS though, can you? Therefore it is not helping the patients...and they are still standing in a que, in front of me, with a disease they brough upon themselves. Is that wrong? Pls say if it is.

[nichomach]

And the reason that you might end up waiting a bit longer in the queue for public services is because the British pay less in taxation generally than just about any country in Western Europe. Consequently, we have less money for public services. Add that to a public sector which suffered decades of underinvestment, and it means that services will take a while to put right. So stop looking for scapegoats and if you want better services, pay for them.

[Swafe]

you gain from smokers as of the huge taxes - as said 8bill a year

does this all go on lung cancer? hell no !


the point is, not all smokers get lung cancer, i aint got a clue how much they spend on it ? lets say 5 or 6 bill - so the rest goes to improving the NHS

so thats where you GAIN - the only problem is with more and more people in hospitals, bigger queues, and even tho they have more cash- so mjore staff surely ? well theres a staff shortage at the moment - as there always is

you gain - better service, you lose bigger queues

[Moby-Dick]

what about a non smoker who has contracted cancer from exhaust fumes - do they get to stand infront of you ,or would you allow the vast quantites of tax we pay as motorists at every feasible occasion influcence your decision to push them out of the way ?

[nichomach]

you cant show it going into the NHS though, can you? Therefore it is not helping the patients...and they are still standing in a que, in front of me, with a disease they brough upon themselves. Is that wrong? Pls say if it is.

Right...and which penny from your income tax paid for your treatment, please? Which precise pound coin flowed directly to your GP's surgery? Can't show me? Why then applying your logic, none of your tax counts.

And the smoker who might be standing in front of you might well be standing behind another 10 people who don't smoke. The difference is that the smoker's paid additional taxation as well.