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Thread: Democracy vs civilisation (or Are we changing from a civilised society to mob ruled?)

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Post Democracy vs civilisation (or Are we changing from a civilised society to mob ruled?)

    OK the title is a little misleading as we already live in a system of democratic representation rather than true democracy (thankfully), however that not the topic of this discussion. The real question I want to discuss is "Are we changing from a civilised society to one in which whoever shouts the loudest gets what they want?"

    My definition of a civilised society is one in which society provides for even those who would not survive by natural selection and one that tries to be fair regardless of influence, wealth, or loudness of voice.

    Britain has done amazingly well on this count in the past, far more than most parts of the world.

    However I fear it's beginning to slip (or slip even more). The paradigm that symbolises this change is the mess over herceptin that recently going through the press. People who watched panorama last night may find it gave a similar view to my own, though I was already talking about it when I first saw what happened.

    For those that don't know, herceptin is a drug for treating breast cancer in it's more advanced stages, and it's pretty effective at at least preventing further degridation. However it's a darn expensive drug and has only been approved for use in more advanced stages. Recently a woman used the press to argue that she should be able to get herceptin for use in a much earlier stage of the disease. Her health care trust had refused (on the grounds it was not approved) but after pressure from the government capitulated and granted the treatment. Since then there have been several cases where health care trusts have been forced into giving the treatment because of directives from higher up.

    Obviously, in an ideal world we would have unlimited funds and we could afford to budget for both all the other treatments that go on, and use of herceptin in all unapproved cases as well as approved. But in reality the budgets were set to take account of the approved uses of herceptin only. This means unapproved uses of herceptin take money away from treatments that would be more effective for other people.

    Now while that's all about herceptin, my point comes in wondering how good it is to have a government that seems to respond to press pressure in preference to it's scientific advisors. The proper people have not approved herceptin for this use yet, but the government seem willing to go against this and cause problems just to gain a more favourable reaction from those that are shouting the loudest.

    And that's the problem - it's people shouting loudly and getting the press involved that caused this turn around. What does that do for the people who are unable to fend for themselves and who don't have a voice?

    In short, we are changing from a civilised representative democracy into mob rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel
    <snip>
    Things have always worked like that. The media control public opinion. MP's are forced to react to public opinion and meddle in things they have no business or understanding in. Its the way of the world.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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    people use the press to Make a point and to make action happen ratehr than sit and wait....
    that their not personally satisfied

    take that Elderly couple incident with a Nursing home crap

    IMHO that was rather digusting.....

    but thatt's not what i worry about...

    i worry about since Mob Rule has taken over Society [as in pathetic scums bags walkign this earth Loonies,Chavs- people who just wanna cause Havoc]

    their the people im worried about..... because if this Mob rule continues its gonna Escalate to something alot worse.... and how long will it last for- will it be that i would have to carry a Letter Openign knive to keep myself safe when im a OAP?

    Also i know of ASBO's - they dont work trust me- you cant get the evidence together when thugs r ripping off CCTV cameras...... and my grandparents cant afford to record it due to being on State Pension.......Also hurling verbal abuse at OAP's so muich to my granddad that he had a Heart attack- to this day -i still wanna kill the gurl responsible because the law didnt protect us.... she only got a slap on the wrist - i wanted to take it further..... but i didnt cos she backed off....

    Maybe the reinsate of National Service ort to sort these Morons out

    And Mr blair can be fired out of a Cannon.... because hes a Dimwt
    Last edited by vincent; 06-02-2006 at 06:56 PM.

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    Democracy is mob rule

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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    True democracy is, but thankfully that's not what we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPutty
    Democracy is mob rule
    I disagree... I would suggest that, in our case, fear of democracy is mob rule. Politicians implement a wide variety of half-baked ideas because they feel an intense need to do something, and be seen doing something. Today's political parties are so afraid of public opinion that they are, on the whole, unwilling to do anything that might offend 'the masses', regardless of what they believe is right.

    Kudos to Boris for upsetting Liverpool because he thought they were over-reacting. We need more people who say what they think is right, regardless of the political consequences.

    Otherwise though, until the government enforces laws as they currently stand, mob rule is very much with us. That means the government need to crack down on, amongst others: 'Animal Rights' protesters who break the law in their protests. Religious groups, be they Hizb ut Tahrir or Christian Voice, who intimidate people. Hunt Saboteurs, regardless of whether the hunt it acting illegally - that's the police's job to sort out. Paedophile lynch mobs. Et c.

    We need to return to the principle of innocent until proven guilty and prevent persecution, in any circumstances, regardless of the ideological justification for doing so.

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