Poll: The Monarchy

[Big RICHARD]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I am not trying to judge them. It is not their fault that they were born into that position. However, if they accept the title that has bestowed them (and I think I am correct in saying that they have the option of not accepting) then I feel that they should make every effort to provide an example to the British public.

I am personally of the opinion that death of "marriage for life" has had a profound and unwanted effect on the country. Britain has the highest divorce rate in the world (http://fact.on.ca/newpaper/ti990615.htm) and I think that has, as an issue, been swept under the carpet. I dont want to pre-judge anyone that has gone through a divorce and I can understand that from time to time these things happen, but I feel that if the Royal family are to be accepting of their position with the social status of the country, they should make more of an effort and lead by example. Other than the Queens marriage to Prince racist, I mean Prince Philip, I cant think of a single royal couple that have not had a divorce. What sort of example does this set the country?

I know that they are only human, but as I said, if they are willing to accept the position that is being offered them, then they realise that they are going to have to make some sacrifices.

What's wrong with divorce? Why should these people have to suffer an unhappy marriage, just because they were born to a certain family? Your argument seems to have a double standard - on one hand you think nobody should be born with special rights because of who their parents were, but on the other you think these people should have special responsibilities because of who their parents were. Why should the royals have to adhere to a different set of rules to you or I?

At present I think we have a use for the royals and a very valid reason for their position in society. In the long run I think we will need an alternative. The royals get their status from the job they do (without choice). They prevent this country from being ruled by dictators who could impose their own laws once in power. If they weren't there we could easily be ruled by some extremist Conservative (like Maggie)

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
What's wrong with divorce? Why should these people have to suffer an unhappy marriage, just because they were born to a certain family? Your argument seems to have a double standard - on one hand you think nobody should be born with special rights because of who their parents were, but on the other you think these people should have special responsibilities because of who their parents were. Why should the royals have to adhere to a different set of rules to you or I?

At present I think we have a use for the royals and a very valid reason for their position in society. In the long run I think we will need an alternative. The royals get their status from the job they do (without choice). They prevent this country from being ruled by dictators who could impose their own laws once in power. If they weren't there we could easily be ruled by some extremist Conservative (like Maggie)

You haven't read my post fully. I said:

if the Royal family are to be accepting of their position with the social status of the country

They DO have a choice. They are not forced at gun point to be a member of the Royal Family.

What's wrong with divorce? I personally dont think it is the best way to bring up kids, that's all. If people dont want to suffer an unhappy marriage, then they shouldn't get married unless they are 100% certain that their partner is right for them. "Till death do us part"? "For better or worse"? I think that those statements should actually mean something.

Why should the royals have to make an effort? Because they have a duty to do so. If they want to live by the sword, they should accept the consequences and set an example.

The same goes for many people in the public eye. Professional football players are given a talent for playing football; they can spend their life playing the game that they love, they get paid enormous sums of money to do so, and are adored by millions of people. IMHO that priveledged position comes with a duty to provide an example for people that look up to them.

[Big RICHARD]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
You haven't read my post fully. I said:

They DO have a choice. They are not forced at gun point to be a member of the Royal Family.

What's wrong with divorce? I personally dont think it is the best way to bring up kids, that's all. If people dont want to suffer an unhappy marriage, then they shouldn't get married unless they are 100% certain that their partner is right for them. "Till death do us part"? "For better or worse"? I think that those statements should actually mean something.

Why should the royals have to make an effort? Because they have a duty to do so. If they want to live by the sword, they should accept the consequences and set an example.

The same goes for many people in the public eye. Professional football players are given a talent for playing football; they can spend their life playing the game that they love, they get paid enormous sums of money to do so, and are adored by millions of people. IMHO that priveledged position comes with a duty to provide an example for people that look up to them.

In a perfect world we would not have wars or persecution or suffering. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world.

I was brought up by divorced parents and I'm no less of a person because of it. I didn't miss out on anything because my parents are divorced. How dare you judge what is and isn't the best way to bring up kids!

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I am personally of the opinion that death of "marriage for life" has had a profound and unwanted effect on the country. Britain has the highest divorce rate in the world (http://fact.on.ca/newpaper/ti990615.htm) and I think that has, as an issue, been swept under the carpet. I dont want to pre-judge anyone that has gone through a divorce and I can understand that from time to time these things happen, but I feel that if the Royal family are to be accepting of their position with the social status of the country, they should make more of an effort and lead by example. Other than the Queens marriage to Prince racist, I mean Prince Philip, I cant think of a single royal couple that have not had a divorce. What sort of example does this set the country?

There are two issues I want to deal with from your statement above.

Firstly, the fact that there're divorces in the Royal Family, makes the Royal Family more real. As you've pointed out, the UK has the highest divorce rate in the world, which means that a lot of parents have to face the rather unhappy situation that their children have to go through divorce. The Queen is no less or no less human than we're and she has to go through the same kind of difficulties as any other parent would have to.

BTW, couple of examples of Royals that have not divorced: Duke and Duchess of Kent, Duke and Duchess of Wessex.

The second point regarding your comment is that of divorce rates in this country. As you may or may not know, marriage is more simply 'being in love' with some. It is also about 'living with love' and 'dealing with love'. I believe that a lot of people are getting married without thoroughly thinking through the consequences of their actions. There is only one way to fix social problems of this kind - education and specifically, education of the domestic kind (not formally organized classroom education). It is up to parents to educate their kids in how to deal with these life decisions. There is nothing politicians can do about it, there's nothing the church can do about it. The only way to get out of this is for parents in this country, collectively, start to deal with the situation themselve. But then you have to ask: How many of them actually want to talk to their kids and even if they do, do the kids want to listen.

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
In a perfect world we would not have wars or persecution or suffering. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world.

IMHO the world would be slightly more perfect if there was no Royal family in the UK.

Originally posted by Big RICHARD

I was brought up by divorced parents and I'm no less of a person because of it. I didn't miss out on anything because my parents are divorced. How dare you judge what is and isn't the best way to bring up kids!

I am not judging you. All I am saying is that personally I believe that the best way to bring up kids is as part of a two parent family. That's all. I also believe that the Royal Family have a duty to encourage this concept; a duty that they have been failing spectacularly in recent decades.

[DaBeeeenster]

Originally posted by spikegifted
There are two issues I want to deal with from your statement above.

Firstly, the fact that there're divorces in the Royal Family, makes the Royal Family more real. As you've pointed out, the UK has the highest divorce rate in the world, which means that a lot of parents have to face the rather unhappy situation that their children have to go through divorce. The Queen is no less or no less human than we're and she has to go through the same kind of difficulties as any other parent would have to.

I am not saying that the royal family are not human. Of course they are. This is not a reason for keeping them though, is it? We are all human, we should all have the same intrinsic rights. Getting rid of the royal family would be a good step towards acheiving this.

Originally posted by spikegifted

The second point regarding your comment is that of divorce rates in this country. As you may or may not know, marriage is more simply 'being in love' with some. It is also about 'living with love' and 'dealing with love'. I believe that a lot of people are getting married without thoroughly thinking through the consequences of their actions. There is only one way to fix social problems of this kind - education and specifically, education of the domestic kind (not formally organized classroom education). It is up to parents to educate their kids in how to deal with these life decisions. There is nothing politicians can do about it, there's nothing the church can do about it. The only way to get out of this is for parents in this country, collectively, start to deal with the situation themselve. But then you have to ask: How many of them actually want to talk to their kids and even if they do, do the kids want to listen.

People's opinions on what is and is not normal are swayed to a large degree by what they see going on around them. When people saw Diana flauting around on a yacht with another man and without her kids, that sends a powerful message to people.

Yes, it is important to educate people, but it seems that a five page spread in Hello magazine has a far greater impact on the public sub-conscious than an hour in a school or college. IMHO the royal family have as much a duty to stay married and provide an example as David Beckham has a duty not to snort 3 foot lines of charlie in public.

[spikegifted]

Originally posted by DaBeeeenster
I am not saying that the royal family are not human. Of course they are. This is not a reason for keeping them though, is it? We are all human, we should all have the same intrinsic rights. Getting rid of the royal family would be a good step towards acheiving this.

People's opinions on what is and is not normal are swayed to a large degree by what they see going on around them. When people saw Diana flauting around on a yacht with another man and without her kids, that sends a powerful message to people.

Yes, it is important to educate people, but it seems that a five page spread in Hello magazine has a far greater impact on the public sub-conscious than an hour in a school or college. IMHO the royal family have as much a duty to stay married and provide an example as David Beckham has a duty not to snort 3 foot lines of charlie in public.

Couple points here, so I'll address each in turn.

As I've pointed out in an earlier post, the world is not fair and intrinsic rights are not evenly distributed - just like wealth. It is not what is being inherited that is important, but how well the individual take advantage of the opportunities given within the limits imposed. Getting rid of the Royal Family is like the cries heard during the French Revolution - "get rid of them and the rich aristocrats and we'd all be better off!!" Well, after all the murder, pillage, death and destruction, there're still plenty of rich people in France and there's still an 'under-class' in France. So much for the battle cries.

The point about domestic part of education is that parents should spend the time to educate their children the so-call 'moral issues' - how to behave, how to conduct oneself, how to value and make judgement of situations and how to place emphasis on life. If kids can be influenced by reading Hello!, the parents clearly haven't their job properly.

[adwhitworth]

I think it's good that they are there. It's been tradition in this country and should stay. However, the media should leave them alone. I feel sorry for them some times as the younger generation just want to lead normalish lives but the media won't allow them to.

[sexeh]

what's the point of it? they don't really have control of anything any more.

[Big RICHARD]

Originally posted by sexeh
what's the point of it? they don't really have control of anything any more.

Have you read this thread????

[RocketmanX]

I think you Brits are lucky to have a figure head to look up to. You have a "symbol" for all Brits to see that says "This is what we Brits are about. You may not all agree on that but you have the same Queen for quite a while and the same family even longer.

We are lucky anymore to occasionally get a Leader to look up to here and it's been a long while since anyone in this country has someone to look up to that kinda shows us all what it means to be American. We used to have heros in this country and we used to have leaders to look up to but anymore with some of our leaders in the past several decades we have begun to do nothing but tear them down from the moment they take office.

I know the royal family isn't perfect but at least they strive to live a life that is held to higher standard and keep the standars for all Brits high as well. Our leaders have a tendency to take for themselves and whatever happen after their 4 years doesn't concern them.

I wish there were a combination of what you guys have and what we have, The bst of both our countries I think would be great.

[Blub2k]

Sod em! Archaic relics of a period of British history the world could have done without!

[DaBeeeenster]

An interesting article by Tony Benn today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...082249,00.html

That's me out of the cabinet then! Bending down on one knee in front of the Queen? No ****ing way!

[3Dfx]

The UK should be proud to have a Royal Family.

U guys should be ashamed if u dont support our own Queen.

... disgraceful... just like all he stuff in the papers about Charles.

The press need strung up and shot... and u guys need to realise that the UK is a unique country ... every other country respect our Royal Family.... but we dont... cos we're ungrateful Panda's.

[DaBeeeenster]

WTF has my disliking of the royal family got to do with a media smear campaign? That's ludicrous. You cant associate me with that.

Why should I be ashamed if I do not support the Queen? What has she done for me? How is the UK unique? What, like other countries in the world dont have a royal family?

The only reason ours is so popular is because they are such a bunch of ****-ups!

[3Dfx]

RE: DaBeeeenster

What has she done for me

What she gotta come round ya house and wipe ya arse before u like her?... why does she have to do summet for you she promotes our country

How is the UK unique?

Cos we have a proper Royal Family... that people (except u) like... they make our country... the Monarchy has been with the UK for decades... longer than you... so why should we remove them... I say remove you... traitor.

What, like other countries in the world dont have a royal family?

USA? .... .... ....