Computer

[Dizzee]

I've been trying to build an expandable comp... (no monitor, keyboard, mouse).
I've been working with a ceiling of £1000, which I've just tipped over.
I really love the Z87-Deluxe.. it is totally overkill for my requirements, but I think it is awesome...
I would like to reduce the price a bit, but am struggling to think of where.
I don't want to reduce the PSU as I'm a strong believer in trying to keep them at 50%
I also want something that I can upgrade.
Also if I could raise the SSD to 256Gb that would be a bonus. (Plextor M5P Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£162.26 @ CCL Computers) maybe?)
Use: general house... will be connected to hifi and HD tv... playing some games but not a priority.

• CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£171.59 @ Aria PC)
• Motherboard: Asus Z87-DELUXE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£196.64 @ Scan.co.uk)
• Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£133.97 @ Dabs)
• Storage: Plextor M5P Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£95.95 @ CCL Computers)
• Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£84.48 @ CCL Computers)
• Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 250 2GB Video Card (£59.99 @ Ebuyer)
• Case: Thermaltake Commander MS/I Snow Edition (White/Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£45.98 @ Novatech)
• Power Supply: NZXT HALE 90 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£129.42 @ Scan.co.uk)
• Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-208DBK Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer (£56.58 @ Scan.co.uk)
• Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Professional (OEM) (64-bit) (£108.09 @ Ebuyer)
• Total: £1082.69

Thanks

edit: found out I could update title

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

What are you doing with the computer??

What computer do you have ATM??

Edit!!

I just re-read the OP.

What games are you playing??

[Dizzee]

no games... Sims 3, when they bring out GTA 5.. but as mentioned it isn't the priority.
of higher priority is.. I guess playing a low level 3D poker game (PKR) whilst streaming to the TV..

to explain: This is a box for my Dad, he doesn't play any massive games. I have told him over and over he doesn't need a computer this powerful... but he wants something he can build on.. something future proof (in computer world terms)...

He wants something that he can show off to to the grand kids who have access to good computers... but that part time use should not interferer with it's everyday use as a home entertainment system (when the grandchildren aren't there trying to torture the computer it's 3d poker, Hd television and house parities*)

something not included in this build is the touch screen monitor that will be added by the end of the year.

So, it is hard to be specific, more a general all rounder.


*yes my parents party more than I do!

[l1ghtm4st3r]

WOAH.

I can't post links but this is what I advise:

Seach CCL computers for this:

Too much RAM, 16gb is of no use: G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB DDR3 2133MHz Dual Channel (Really fast RAM and trust me, 8GB is enough!) £67
Your SSD is overpriced and for a touch slower performance that's unnoticeable get a 256gb Samsung EVO £130
Do you seriously need 3TB of hard disk? That seems way OTT, but if you have to get it then you have no choice.

Your graphics card is utterly useless for running the games of the like GTA V but for sims 3 it's suitable. How much more is your budget for a graphics card?
You don't need Windows 8 Pro, just get the regular home edition.

[MrJim]

The idea of putting together a 'future proof' PC is a bit of a misnomer, really. The technology changes so rapidly that any system will be 'dated' after a relatively short period of time. Of course the great thing about PCs is that they are easily upgradable, so as your needs change, so can your hardware. You'd probably be better off spending less on your initial build, thereby saving some cash for future upgrades further down the line.

As for the system you've specified, well there are definitely areas where you can save a bit. Your mention of games is a bit conflicting though; Sims 3 is not all that demanding of graphics hardware I believe, but GTA 5 will probably need a fairly competent graphics card to run at decent frame-rates. I doubt the R7 250 you specify will really be up to the job, so a better card might be worthwhile I think.

Your choice of case is obviously down to aesthetics to some extent, but if the PC is going to be used as a home entertainment system, maybe something a bit more living-room friendly might be worthwhile?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

What until GTAV comes out for the PC and see what kind of hardware is required.

TBH,future proofing is not really possible with PCs IMHO.

[Dizzee]

Thanks for all the replys

ok.. I'm struggling with the gfx card...
I can't spend more, (I've opt'd for the Plextor M5P Series 256GB in the end... I originally selected Plextor due to their reliability and am sticking with)
The XFX Radeon HD 7750... it's still fairly cheap but as a little more bang.. older tech though...
The R7 250... slower but newer tech... running on Win 8..
Tempted to stick with the R7 as it is cheap and will do the job for now.

and yups I think you might have a point with the case.. I'm after something with good cooling and sound proofing... ideally with a window to show of the Z87-Deluxe.. (well they put all that gold on it.. it would be a shame to cover it up ).. I have a new Antec 300 or 600 (old style )in the garage.. if I can find it... if its the 600 then he can have it.. but I think it is the 300.

Windows 8 pro... remote access is a must these days.

So I guess no real objections to this build except the case ( I agree, good point, thank you, gunna change it), gfx card which is cheap but is easily upgraded later and my use of "future proofing"

8Gb, imo, is the minimum you'd go for... 12Gb would be a better compromise... but 16 is... more future proof.

and regarding future proofing... taking into consideration that we know this (computer) technology dates quickly and is constantly changing... simply means.. at least to me.. "how soon I would need to upgrade"... I'm buying into the LGA1150 tech.. hope its a good investment... The power supply is a tab weak but my Dad talked me out of putting a 1250w in but still 850w will last a few upgrades.. 3Tb will get filled eventually... 256GB SSD should last...
I disagree with "spending less on your initial build, thereby saving some cash for future upgrades further down the line" spending cash wisely initially will reduce the need for future upgrades sooner than later.
My main concern is buying into DDR3 at the end of it's life; with the prospect of Haswell-E and DDR4 coming later this year... and then you get ULLtraDIMM and it all gets too complicated for lil ole me

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

GTA V will probably run poorly on a Core i5 4670K and a R7 250 or an HD7750 GDDR5.

The PSU is OTT and so is the motherboard. Anything over 550W to 600W is OTT for a single card setup,or even many dual card setups. £200 on a motherboard is OTT,when a £70 to £100 would do the same job.

Honestly an FX8320 and a R9 270X would be more than enough for most games.

Alas,I think too many people are falling for the "need" to have a K series Core i5 which is marketed by many websites.

I know plenty of avid gamers who have less expensive hardware.

I also did loads of 35MM negative scans(100MB+ Tiffs) and image editing using far less powerful hardware.

Edit!!

Is your dad even going to overclock the PC??

Its just wasted money if overclocking is not used.

[Dizzee]

but if I was to add 2 decent cards at a later date I would have to upgrade the PSU also... as it stands the PSU will last and running way below its capacity will be fairly quiet and produce minimal heat?
Is given that the gfx card is not great... I simply can't afford a better one at this point.

And yes the Mobo is ott... I stated that in op... but it is awesome

what is wrong with the i5 4670K? (would be a waste of a mobo to not get the K series.. I did suggest getting a cheaper 1150 for the time being and upgrading later)...
My own computer is a LGA775 and runs a celeron 3300... It needs upgrading but has admirably lasted this long so I am well aware how overkill the above build is, but my Dad wants a killer machine... I'm a staunch believer that the motherboard is the most important element in the computer and the one item you want to get right first time.

and yes of cause it's going to be overclocked... what a waste it would be if we didn't... he's already asking me if we should get a better cooler! (which will come eventually)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

He isn't going to add two cards though?? I have mates with 400+ games in their Steam libraries who don't have Core i5 K series CPUs,let alone even £200+ graphics cards.

Just get a Xeon E3 1230 V3(basically a Core i7 4770 with no IGP) and a a B85 based motherboard,and forget about overclocking.

Overclocking only makes sense in value for money if you keep the costs down. Otherwise all it is a bragging match and not really make your PC last that much longer as you are spending hundreds of quid more on cooling and extra bits and pieces.

TBH,why not get him a console?? A PS4 will last 5+ years and play any game well. Plus since it is hooked upto the TV,your dad and his grandkids can actually play on the same screen together. Then he get a laptop for around £600,which should last a few years.

A top end computer of two to three years ago is old hat today,so in reality unless you are a hardware enthusiast its a fools game about spending uber money on a PC now, and trying to make it future proof.

Even among hardware enthusiasts its a pointless game,unless you want to be spend £1000s of pounds each year.

Enthusiast CPUs can hit £400+ and graphics cards £800+ so in reality I think your dad has to realise this.

If he really wants to spend his £1000 get the following bits:

Xeon E3 1230 V3

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel...che-80w-retail

Gigabyte B85-HD3

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigab...dvi-d-hdmi-atx

Seasonic G 550W

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/550w-...nt-fan-atx-psu

Windows 8.1

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/micro...pk-dsp-oei-dvd

2TB Toshiba HDD

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...A246UO6SGGEFX8

Crucial M500 240GB

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Corsair 300R

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Asus Blu-Ray writer

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

8GB Crucial 1866MHZ DDR3

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Gigabyte R9 280X 3GB

http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyt...%20280x&src=16

The total comes to around £980.11 and it is probably still OTT for the actual needs stated in the OP.

Most of the gamers I know don't have hardware that powerful.

I think you really need another word with your dad. Personally I think he is just wasting his money and a console would make a better choice.

and yes of cause it's going to be overclocked... what a waste it would be if we didn't... he's already asking me if we should get a better cooler! (which will come eventually)

I personally think he is setting himself up for disappointment. Its a fruitless fight.

He has fallen into the E-PEEN marketing drive sadly. Overclocking was(until SB arrived) meant to be about increasing value for money.

But since SB,Intel locked out meaningful overclocking on sub £160 chips,and finally locked it out with Haswell.

They now have made overclocking of Intel CPUs an overpriced E-PEEN sport and made sure their marketing has done a stellar job,so they can more people to spend more money with them.

FFS,when motherboard companies found a loop hold meaning £60 B85 motherboards could be used to get decent overclocks on the Core i5 4670K,they on purpose forced companies to lock it out.

It makes me and other old school enthusiast cringe and feel a bit sick inside.

Plus many of the retarded review sites don't make it clear that even a £100 CPU is probably more powerful than people realise.

Nope,they do pointless things like test iTunes CD ripping speed,by using WAVs stored in a RAM disk.

Most people don't use RAM disks,they rip from an optical drive which is the biggest bottleneck for such things,once you have a reasonable CPU.

The same with gaming tests,where in reality it is the graphics card which is more limiting in many cases. But they use £300 to £600 graphics cards instead.

However,there is not much incentive for sites to not do it - they rely on companies sending them review samples.

Moreover,Haswell and IB have most of the functionality on the CPU and rely on multiplier overclocking mostly. Hence,going OTT on the motherboard is only useful for benchmarking. Haswell integrates some of the VRMs onto the CPU,meaning the motherboard is mostly a shell now responsible for some voltage regulation and IO.

A £200 motherboard is not going to last any longer than a £75 overclocking one or a £50+ non-overclocking one. I say that from experience.

Heck,my mate is running week long bioinformatics stuff(this is very CPU intensive) frequently and he is using a £100 Phenom II X6 and a £80 Asus 970 based motherboard. He has been doing this for the last few years,with a Seasonic made 400W PSU.

A lot of modern hardware made for the DIY PC market is overbuilt for the job once you go past a certain price point.

[DanceswithUnix]

You don't need Windows 8 Pro, just get the regular home edition.

Windows 8 pro can I believe be downgraded to Window 7.
Windows 8 home cannot. For some that is a deal breaker.

Edit to add: If the 3TB drive is for storing movies for display on the TV, I expect some sort of streaming device/NAS/HTPC would work better than some monster gaming rig being hooked up.

[Domestic_Ginger]

@CtV I think its called diminishing returns and I couldn't agree more.

[Dizzee]

guess I should also tell my Dad to down grade his car as he's only allowed to drive 70mph.. anything that can go faster would be a waste!
The criticisms haven't been about the parts but mainly about the motives.. I thought this was a tech forum not psych lab.

@DanceswithUnix - very good point regarding the 3Tb... I'm not convinced there is sufficient saving to change.. he's got 1.5Tb currently and is near full (although I'm sure half of that is my crap), I was going to look at NAS/media server but his current TV is a sony/samsung (not sure - think sony off hand) and I've read is temperamental with a lot of media servers. I've set his current PC up with PS3 media server which works well, but the current TV is on the way out so that'll have to wait till the replacement until then I need to compencate. Non the less, He travels a lot and makes loads loads of videos and pictures, which need storage... also, remembering how big 80Gb drives were way back when I don't think 3Tb is anything substantial.

@CtV (it saddens me that I have to say this) I really did just want to discuss the build, but as you have made an issue of it.. I had already sat my Dad down and pointed out to him how massively overkill this is. The motherboard is the motherboard I would choose (and I'd rather save my appropriateness of it for another discussion).. so he wants it... I have told him a number of times I could swap the board out, not tell him, and give him a significantly cheaper one and he'd not notice the difference... and yes I've also had the discussion on overclocking... but in the same way people buy sports cars, he doesn't want something that just does the job (a Nissan micra does the job, right?)... if he doesn't overclock it then fine.. but the choice is his... not mine or anyone else's... he wants something he can play with.. whether or not he plays with it is his choice.. guess I should have stated all this in the OP.. but didn't think I had to... yes I know the GFX card and cooler are lacking but coincidently are also the easiest things to add later I am in need an immediate solution else I'd wait till I could get these as well.

@Domestic_Ginger - this

Regarding the case I keep returning to the Zalmen Z11 plus.

[Dizzee]

so I've changed the case to a Zalman Z11+, found a Antec KÜHLER H2O 620 (cooler) in the loft and and going to go for an MSI R9 270X gfx

although, while looking in the loft, I did find the Antec 300 case mentioned earlier.. as the Antec 620 directs the heat straight out do I need so much cooling and sound proofing of the Z11+ any more?

[jim]

guess I should also tell my Dad to down grade his car as he's only allowed to drive 70mph.. anything that can go faster would be a waste!
The criticisms haven't been about the parts but mainly about the motives.. I thought this was a tech forum not psych lab.

Generally speaking, it's very difficult to advise on what components someone needs if we don't know the motives. If someone says "Spec a PC for £1000", then what they want to do with it is fairly crucial. A 256GB SSD machine with a top-of-the-range gaming graphics card won't be much cop if they want something quiet to create 3D models on and store a large number of renders.

CtV (it saddens me that I have to say this) I really did just want to discuss the build, but as you have made an issue of it.. I had already sat my Dad down and pointed out to him how massively overkill this is. The motherboard is the motherboard I would choose (and I'd rather save my appropriateness of it for another discussion).. so he wants it... I have told him a number of times I could swap the board out, not tell him, and give him a significantly cheaper one and he'd not notice the difference... and yes I've also had the discussion on overclocking... but in the same way people buy sports cars, he doesn't want something that just does the job (a Nissan micra does the job, right?)... if he doesn't overclock it then fine.. but the choice is his... not mine or anyone else's... he wants something he can play with.. whether or not he plays with it is his choice.. guess I should have stated all this in the OP.. but didn't think I had to... yes I know the GFX card and cooler are lacking but coincidently are also the easiest things to add later I am in need an immediate solution else I'd wait till I could get these as well.

Ultimately, you've already made your decision about what you want. Clearly you appreciate that it's an illogical decision, but you still want those specs. You can't expect to ask for critique in the review my build forum and then not receive any critique!