A worthwhile update?

[phurbs]

Ok good folks of Hexus.

I am mulling over a little upgrade. My current build it pretty much exactly 3 years old and it starting to show it's age in some regards, basically in terms of gaming (ie. CIV5, FM14 and the occasional FPS) although to be honest, this PC has held up a lot better than my previous builds in terms of spec wars, so I dont need a massive jump in performance.

Anyway, I don't do so much with my PC, just browsing, music (and occasional video) transcoding and basic gaming, however I do tend to keep lots of applications open at a time (ie right now I am using 85% of my 8GB RAM) as such I am looking to bump this up. I would also like to lose the video card to save a bit of noise so I am hoping these build will perform OK gaming wise with the onboard chipset.

I am comfortable with most of these choices in terms of price point (£300ish) and compatibility but I wanted to get an opinion on:

1. Which route (AMD v Intel) route to go down in terms of bang for buck.
2. Whether I would notice a drop in graphics performance going from a dedicated HD6670 to the integrated on either chip.

Other than that, as always my stuff will be bought from scan.co.uk wherever possible, as I live very local!

Thanks in advance!

Staying
Case: Lian-Li PCQ11B
PSU: 500W Silverstone SST-ST50F
HDD: Intel 120GB SSD

Replaced
CPU: Intel Core i3 2100 s1155
Mobo: Asus P8H67-I DELUXE H67 MoBo
HSF: Thermaltake CL-P0534
RAM: 8GB Corsair 1333MHz
GFX: 1GB Asus Radeon HD6670

Proposal 1 - AMD
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI
CPU: AMD A8-7600
HSF: ??
RAM: 16GB 1600MHz DDR3
GFX: On Board

Proposal 2 - Intel
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-H87N-WIFI
CPU: Intel i3-4330
HSF: Thermaltake CL-P0534 <-From current build. I think this will be compatible?
RAM: 16GB 1600MHz DDR3
GFX: On board

[Letchy]

Proposal 1 - AMD
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI
CPU: AMD A8-7600
HSF: ??
RAM: 16GB 1600MHz DDR3
GFX: On Board

Proposal 2 - Intel
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-H87N-WIFI
CPU: Intel i3-4330
HSF: Thermaltake CL-P0534 <-From current build. I think this will be compatible?
RAM: 16GB 1600MHz DDR3
GFX: On board

Hey mate =)

Sadly, that cooler used in the second proposal seems to not be compatible with the 1150 chipset... I checked the Scan page and it says sockets 775, 1155 and 1156. As far as which build to choose - I have heard that AMD are the way to go when choosing to go without a dedicated GPU set up. I think I am correct in saying that the integrated Intel graphics are not as good as their AMD couterparts, at least not until Intel HD 3000 (in the more expensive CPUs that is).

Although I am no expert, so it would probably be best to wait for someone who knows a lot more than I do on the integrated graphics topic. Oh, and I would suggest getting dual 8GB RAM sticks rather than a single 16gb stick. You could then take advantage of dual channel which I think would help the AMD APU performance.

[phurbs]

Hey letchy!

I am a little unsure on the HSF too. The scan website does say only S1155 however this site says the two are identical so 1155 should fit 1150. I am willing to be proven wrong though.

Thanks for the input on the CPU side. I am trying to wade through reviews now, but it's still unclear to me

[edit] The RAM is 2x8GB

[Letchy]

I was thinking it a little strange too seeing as other coolers do work with 1150, which were built for the previous sockets - such as the CM 212 EVO. Maybe Scan just haven't updated? Who knows

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Third option!

Flash your motheboard to the latest BIOS and plonk in a SB or IB Core i5.

I went from a SB based Core i3 to a SB based Xeon E3 1220 which is a Core i5 2400 with more L3 cache. I use a Gigabyte H67 based motherboard.

I assume the RAM is in dual channel??

I would get the Xeon E3 1230 V2:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel...tio-69w-retail

It is bascially a Core i7 3770 with no IGP.

There is anough budget left to get a decent enough graphics card too.

[kompukare]

AFAIK, LGA775 + LGA1156 + LGA 1155 + LGA 1150 all have the same physical layout. I've actually used a stock LGA1155 cooler on a LGA775 board for instance. Think LGA1366 is also the same. LGA2011 is not (well they are physically larger too). Hard to get a define answer though.

But looking at various heatsink manufacture or merchants, whatever is listed as being compatible with one is generally listed as being compatible with the others (obviously some older coolers might not list LGA 1150 though). Any coolers which are Intel & AMD compatible tend to come with some adapters though since those are not compatible. It's mostly the mounting holes on the motherboard though. LGA 1155 and LGA 1150 are definitely the same though as for instance Thermaltake lists all of them with the same checkbox. As is yours:
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/produc...?id=C_00001602

Model CLP0534
Compatibility -Intel Socket
LGA1156 73W
LGA1155 65W
LGA775 65W

[Domestic_Ginger]

With screws; some 775 coolers will fit 1155 mobos too.

You can Youtube stuff like this.

I would get a quad core i5 or even an i7 if you can find one at a good price.

[DanceswithUnix]

Erm, I think you need to stop stressing about the details of which heatsink until you have decided on the major stuff.

Cat's idea of the replacement CPU is almost certainly a good one (I presume Cat has spotted that this is a SFF build, and he knows those).

For proposal 1, that CPU isn't on sale yet.
For proposal 2, integrated graphics will suck compared to what you have.

As for the ram, are you really sure that ram is used? How far into swap are you? A modern OS, even Windows, will try and find some sort of use for all the ram you have even if it is caching something. If the system says you are heavily into swap, then you need more ram. On my home PC I usually have a couple of games and a web browser with lots of tabs running and 8GB is fine. My work machine has 24GB of ram out of necessity, so it does happen but that really isn't normal.

So to add to Cat's recommendation, whilst the new Nvidia GTX 750Ti is a bit meh on big desktops it seems well suited to small systems where every bit of heat saved helps. I presume your current card doesn't have 2GB of ram on it either, so that will help. Does your case have room inside for a double width graphics card?

Another thing, are you running plain Civ5 or do you have the expansions? My wife plays that game a lot, and one of the expansions sped up her system a lot to the point it probably robbed AMD of a video card sale (which helps my wallet so no complaints here ). She has an AMD 965BE quad core, 4GB of DDR2 ram and an HD6770 graphics card. Civ is a very graphics card heavy program.

[DanceswithUnix]

If the ASUS motherboard in "Staying" is the one you currently have, then according to the support site http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H67I_DELUXE/#support you can use an E3-1230 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel...tio-69w-retail.

[phurbs]

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback, as always!

It looks like I messed up the original post (now amended) as I was planning on scrapping the mobo as I expected to move to a new socket. However I am perfectly happy to keep it if that is a better plan.

Moving from an i3 to effectively an i5 may be about right in the processing department. General PC performance is not my main concern as the i3 is doing OK. I am more trying to bump graphics performance while also trying to get a quieter PC.

With that in mind, would option 1 or 2 be better, ie moving to a new gen of APU? Or I would I be better off sticking with a previous gen chip with the either Xeon E3 1230 (£170) as suggested or maybe a i5 3350P for £125 and then spending £100 or so and decent (quiet?) video card?

As for video cards, I have not even looked in that direction so I am open to suggestions! I do have space for a double WIDTH card just not a LONG card so any card at around £100 which is shortish and QUIET (if this is possible!) will be suitable. I do prefer dual-DVI rather than DVI/HDMI combo.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The Q11 can take cards upto 9.5" in length.

You could get the Core i5 and this graphics card:

http://www.ebuyer.com/584414-sapphir...FWjKtAode2MAHQ

The card is under 9" long:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...pid=2039&lid=1

The GTX750TI is cheaper and a bit more compact,but is much slower. I would spend the extra £20 on the R9 270 if possible.

The card is meant to be quiet:

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphi...graphics-card/

This would be the GTX750TI I would look at:

http://www.ebuyer.com/623499-gigabyt...-gv-n75toc-2gi

However,even a stock R9 270 2GB is around 20% to 40% faster than the slight pre-overclocked Gigabyte GTX750TI 2GB.

I run a Xeon E3 1220 and a GTX660 and I can even run Crysis3 at decent settings at 1680X1050.

I use the Gigabyte mini-ITX H67 based motherboard in a Cubitek mini-ITX case.

[phurbs]

Thanks Cat. I think I will go with your suggestion getting a non IGP CPU and then plonk in a GPU.

CPU wise, would there be an heat implications of going with the Xeon E3 1230 versus the i5 i linked?

Also, in terms of the GPU, I know they are fairly new to the market, but does anyone know anything about the new Maxwell based GPUs?

Info Here but they seem perfect. Good performance, small and quiet, and in my proce range!

[MrJim]

Also, in terms of the GPU, I know they are fairly new to the market, but does anyone know anything about the new Maxwell based GPU? Info Here

What's your budget for a graphics card? The Maxwell architecture is much better than Kepler as far as compute performance is concerned, so depending on which software you use for transcoding & video work, it might be a good choice.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Thanks Cat. I think I will go with your suggestion getting a non IGP CPU and then plonk in a GPU.

CPU wise, would there be an heat implications of going with the Xeon E3 1230 versus the i5 i linked?

Also, in terms of the GPU, I know they are fairly new to the market, but does anyone know anything about the new Maxwell based GPUs?

Info Here but they seem perfect. Good performance, small and quiet, and in my proce range!

Yet significantly slower than a R9 270 in more intensive games. If I were you I would get the R9 270 I linked to. Hexus reviewed the card I link to and it was considered quiet and the AMD cards are just quicker at OpenCL than the Nvidia ones ATM(including the GTX750TI).

The GTX750TI will be faster than what you have,but your case can take larger and more powerful cards.

This is what my case looks like inside:

http://cdn.eteknix.com/wp-content/up...2/DSC_8284.jpg



I have a GTX660 in mine which has had no problems so far.

My whole system,ie,Xeon E3 1220,8GB of DDR3,a few drives and a GTX660 consumes around 150W to 200W at the wall,when running games or 3DMark.

Edit!!

This thread might be useful:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1523097

People with Q11 based builds,running GTX460 cards in them,etc.

[MrJim]

Yet significantly slower than a R9 270 in more intensive games. If I were you I would get the R9 270 I linked to. Hexus reviewed the card I link to and it was considered quiet and the AMD cards are just quicker at OpenCL than the Nvidia ones ATM(including the GTX750TI).

Slower in absolute terms, but more efficient:


Although this is mining performance not video encoding, it does illustrate the point

Is gaming performance important to the OP?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Slower in absolute terms, but more efficient:


Although this is mining performance not video encoding, it does illustrate the point

Is gaming performance important to the OP?

Good old PCPER(they have close links to Nvidia). Funnily many of the people who use the AMD cards get better performance/watt according to threads on the matter. Moreover,as many people have pointed out,having more powerful cards per rig,actually is more useful,not more less powerful cards.

However,mining performance has nothing to do with OpenCL performance. AMD is still better especially since the Apple Mac Pro uses AMD cards.



That Mac Pro uses dual AMD FirePro cards and is tiny. Those FirePro cards use the same GPU in the HD7970.

I have had nothing but Shuttle and mini-ITX gaming rigs since late 2005.

All small systems with 250W to 500W PSUs.

These are the highish end cards I had:

6800GT(well an unlocked 6800LE) - 250W PSU
7900GS - 400W PSU
X1900GT -400W PSU
8800GTS 512MB - 400W PSU
HD3870 - 400W PSU
HD5850 1GB overclocked by 30% - 450W PSU
GTX660 - 520W PSU replaced by 450W PSU

All tiny systems.

I want good gaming performance,and for 9+ years I have never settled for anything under a decent midrange card.

My Xeon E3 and GTX660 system consumes 150W to 200W at the wall at most.

Yes you save power with a slower GTX750TI but the problem is whether it is worth it??









The GTX750TI is a slower card,and for the little money you save in power costs,is more than made up for,the fact it is slower and will need to be replaced quicker.

The OP has a 500W PSU - it is hardly going to be taxed by a card with a single PCI-E power connector.

I did link to a Gigabyte GTX750TI in an earlier post which has a quiet cooler,but ultimately,the R9 270 seems a better gaming power.

The GTX750TI is a nice card,but it suffers from being overpriced in the UK and being overhyped.

However,being an Nvidia card it always is,just like with Tegra!