Memory Problems

[Winterlove]

Hello again.

Had my machine delivered this morning. I hadn't realised that an 800D is quite that big. Anyway, delivery chap connected it up, all seems to be fine. However, after I'd signed and he'd gone and I'd had a chance to play a bit more, I noticed that it's only recognising 8gb of the 12gb I have installed. I've not had chance to investigate properly - I want to try reseating the RAM, but sadly I needed to dash off to work - but will have a poke this evening.

I notice that I'm not the only person who is having this kind of problem, too.

[PeteG@Scan]

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear that it's playing up on arrival. This has been an on going problem for the best part of a year now, and I've been working with various companies since last x-mas trying to help to resolve it.

The problem has been seen with various combinations of CPU/Memory/Motherboards across the ranges and has been pretty hard to nail down. We've been working with Corsair, Gigabyte and Asus to resolve it for good for the past few months and the efforts have been paying off but the odd one has still fallen through the cracks.

The problem we have is that this problem doesn't always show itself in testing. I've had hardware on my bench for weeks and it will then only start to do this after it leaves the building, or in some cases 6 months down the line! Very, very annoying.

Due to the work done by the teams we've dealt with through test bioses that fix most of the issues have been forthcoming from all of them and we've seen what was a major problem become less so recently. Unfortently the problem seems to rear it's head every now and then and we can't always catch it.

Can you let me know what board is in your system along with the current bios that is on there. I can then check and see if the are any Beta Bios available that may help with the issue.

Could you let me know if it's overclocked as well please. Some times a slightly tweak to the BCLK setting in the bios fixes it. If you have a quick look in there for the "Blck" setting and adjust upwards by 1 and then save and exit. Sometimes this slight adjustment has on the ASUS boards at least fixed the issue.

Thanks,
Pete.

[Winterlove]

Hello,
Can you let me know what board is in your system along with the current bios that is on there. I can then check and see if the are any Beta Bios available that may help with the issue.

Could you let me know if it's overclocked as well please. Some times a slightly tweak to the BCLK setting in the bios fixes it. If you have a quick look in there for the "Blck" setting and adjust upwards by 1 and then save and exit. Sometimes this slight adjustment has on the ASUS boards at least fixed the issue.

It is overclocked, yes. I'll get on this when I get home tonight. In the meantime, my machine is Build *****, Invoice ******* if your own records can help you narrow things down a bit.

Winterlove

[PeteG@Scan]

Hi,

Looks like it's a stright 4GB overclock with 1600Mhz memory so i expect the BCLK to be set at either 160 (with an increased multiplier on the Extreme CPU) or 200Mhz with the Extreme at the currect multiplier.

Either way with the Asus boards the's been good feed back over the last week from ASUS themselfs in regards to raising the Bclk up one to either 161 or 201. This is certainly worth a shot and if you could let me know the bios revision when you get in as well I'll see what version's we have here. The have been a couple of betas over the last week alone and the's an outside chance we have a newer one being tested that factors in the feedback given over the last few weeks.

Regards,
Pete.

[Winterlove]

Hi,
Either way with the Asus boards the's been good feed back over the last week from ASUS themselfs in regards to raising the Bclk up one to either 161 or 201. This is certainly worth a shot and if you could let me know the bios revision when you get in as well I'll see what version's we have here. The have been a couple of betas over the last week alone and the's an outside chance we have a newer one being tested that factors in the feedback given over the last few weeks.

OK. I've tried reseating the RAM, no joy. I've tried increasing the BCLK from 200 to 201, similarly no joy. BIOS revision is 0402 07/12/10.

Thanks

[CHARLIEcat64]

Looks like this is a bit more than a one off?

[jambokaos87]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm having the exact same issues.

My system has 8GB of RAM physically installed but the BIOS only sees 4GB. From the looks of things all your screen shots from the testing you guys did only showed 4GB as well. Weirdly Windows 7 64 bit shows 8GB of RAM available but only 4GB is usable.

I have tried re-seating the RAM but to no avail and also the BCLK from 200 to 201 as suggested.

The board is an ASUS P7P55D Deluxe and it has been manually overclocked by you guys.

My systems build number is 31214.

[Winterlove]

One more datapoint. The amount of RAM recognised at startup varies between 8Gb and 10Gb.

[Winterlove]

(I have started a new thread on this topic in the after-sale support area of the forum)

[Winterlove]

Given that quite a few people have had memory problems of one kind or another, some may be interested in the state of play regarding my particular machine.

So, to summarise. The machine was delivered a week ago. On startup it recognised only 10Gb of the 12Gb installed. Successive restarts established that it would recognise either 8Gb or 10Gb, with no obvious pattern determining what you are likely to get. I tried reseating the RAM, no improvement. It was suggested by 3XS that raising the BCLK up a step might help, it didn't. 3XS sent me out a beta BIOS update, which sadly bricked my machine by seeming to put it into a state where it was trying to sort out its memory profile and never being happy about it (oops). I removed half the memory and this made it much much happier. The current state of affairs is that it will go back to 3XS to be fixed properly.

However, reading around, I'm not sure to what extent it *can* be fixed. You see, reading in the manual for the motherboard (Asus P6X58D-E) it says that the Intel XMP spec says you can only have one 1600MHz DIMM per channel, and the setup I ordered has the 12Gb arranged as 6 2Gb sticks - on the face of it an unsupported configuration, something which 3XS cannot do anything about. Looking around, Scan do offer Corsair 12Gb 1600MHz tri-channel XMP configured as 3 4Gb DIMMS, but that is somewhat more expensive and also clocked at 9-9-9-24 rather than 8-8-8-24. To be honest, though, my use case is such that I'd prefer 12Gb of slightly slower memory that 6Gb of faster memory. All this said, the 12Gb in the form of 3 sticks is not offered as a configuration option for the machine I ordered.

Another confusing factor is that the motherboard manual comment above is at odds with information on the Corsair and Asus websites. Both of these list the memory I have as compatible with my motherboard, while the manual says it can't be. Perhaps there is a subtle difference between "compatible" and "supported, in-spec configuration". You can have the first without having the second.

So, that is my tale of woe so far. Now to concentrate on the good points. Memory problems aside, the machine is lovely. It has clearly been constructed with a great deal of care and it is very tidy and roomy inside (although, since this is a Corsair 800D case, it would be hard for it not to be roomy inside). It is a joy to use, being quick and responsive. I really wish it didn't have to go back to be repaired because I want to play with it.

Would I change anything (apart from the memory)? Well, in retrospect I'd have preferred a motherboard with more USB 2.0 ports (the P6X58D-E has four on the back panel and headers on the motherboard for another four, and the internal multi-card reader takes up one of those headers). Had the Corsair 600T been an option when I placed my order, I would probably gone for that instead. The 800D is lovely, but heavens it is enormous and heavy. Still, it is a joy to work in, so it's not certain that I'd have gone for the 600T.

Finally, a note about 3XS itself. It is all very well to provide good a good range of high-quality products, but the true test of any organisation is how well they deal with things when they go wrong. Thus far I have been impressed with the service I am receiving. My PMs have been dealt with in a timely manner and I've been kept up-to-date with the progress of potential fixes (I don't regard it as 3XS's fault that the BIOS update didn't work). I get the impression 3XS are working hard to make things right and I appreciate that. Thank you.

[PeteG@Scan]

Thanks for the feedback and I'll tackle some of your points here

However, reading around, I'm not sure to what extent it *can* be fixed. You see, reading in the manual for the motherboard (Asus P6X58D-E) it says that the Intel XMP spec says you can only have one 1600MHz DIMM per channel, and the setup I ordered has the 12Gb arranged as 6 2Gb sticks - on the face of it an unsupported configuration, something which 3XS cannot do anything about.

The great thing about XMP specs is that you can ignore it, and unless your going with 3 sticks at stock configurations it's highly advisable that you do!

XMP is a stored set of values that the memory is designed to work with. With the current complexity of bioses as you'll have noticed the's all sorts of crazy timings these days that can junk a system if set wrong. The XMP settings are on chip instructions so that the bios can autoconfigure. These are only really relevent through if your working at stock speeds with a single bank of memory and as you note once you step away from the norm your on your own.

Looking around, Scan do offer Corsair 12Gb 1600MHz tri-channel XMP configured as 3 4Gb DIMMS, but that is somewhat more expensive and also clocked at 9-9-9-24 rather than 8-8-8-24. To be honest, though, my use case is such that I'd prefer 12Gb of slightly slower memory that 6Gb of faster memory. All this said, the 12Gb in the form of 3 sticks is not offered as a configuration option for the machine I ordered.

It can be arranged but whoever set up the configuration on that system on the website I can only assume saw that option as being poor value and left it off... either that or we didn't carry the product at the time it was set up. Either way we can subsitute in any item that a customer wants when the machine is being set up if they call in and speak to a sales guy. Obviously a bit late for that this time around but handy for anyone reading in the future

In fact as it's coming back and only a few weeks old, if you want to go with 3 stick / 12GB option I can look into doing the upgrade for you whilst it's here. Not sure if the bios update supports the chips used on the memory sticks but if we're going to do it, it may as well be whilst it's sat in front of me!

Another confusing factor is that the motherboard manual comment above is at odds with information on the Corsair and Asus websites. Both of these list the memory I have as compatible with my motherboard, while the manual says it can't be. Perhaps there is a subtle difference between "compatible" and "supported, in-spec configuration". You can have the first without having the second.

The compatible list in the manual I'm afraid goes out of date before it even makes it to print. It's good as a guideline of the firms that the motherboard company tests with but shouldn't be taken as written in stone.

Memory sticks have their own controllers and the chips used change from batch to batch. It's very highly unlikely that anything tested as working, and in the manual will be available by the time the motherboard makes it to market. It is however a good sign that if a company lists say for instance Corsair as a qualified solution that should anything go wrong down the line with newer batches of memory, that they'll be happy to work with the memory firm in order to reach a solution (as is happening right now in this case )

Back to the XMP problem. XMP is only valid for 3 sticks but the is a second set of xmp values normally that allow a fall back set of timings for other configurations. For instance if yours is 8-8-8-24 for the memory you have in a 3 stick set up then it will be the case that if you put 6 in and then set it to 9-9-9-24 it'll work fine. This is in the spec (I think the's more info over on the Corsair Ramguy site if you dig about) and is the key solution to the problem. To be honest the diference between 8-8-8-24 and 9-9-9-24 is imposible to see unless your overlocking and running bench tests and has pretty much zero affect in the real world.... well maybe half a frame per second but nothing that's going to ruin your day. The Mhz and amount of memory is more important overall I'd say.

I get the impression 3XS are working hard to make things right and I appreciate that. Thank you.

Thanks, and hopefully we can get this sorted and back to you quickly and let you get on with enjoying your new system

[Winterlove]

It can be arranged but whoever set up the configuration on that system on the website I can only assume saw that option as being poor value and left it off... either that or we didn't carry the product at the time it was set up. Either way we can subsitute in any item that a customer wants when the machine is being set up if they call in and speak to a sales guy. Obviously a bit late for that this time around but handy for anyone reading in the future

In fact as it's coming back and only a few weeks old, if you want to go with 3 stick / 12GB option I can look into doing the upgrade for you whilst it's here. Not sure if the bios update supports the chips used on the memory sticks but if we're going to do it, it may as well be whilst it's sat in front of me!

If 12Gb in 6 sticks can be made to work, then I'd much prefer that - much more cost effective. By the time I start running out of 12Gb then I suspect I'd be better off replacing all of the memory, rather than leaving room for expansion now and having compatability problems at some point in the future. On the other hand, if 3 4Gb sticks is the only way it can be made to work, then that is what will have to be done.

From what you are saying it seems that Asus and Corsair both reckon this setup damned well *should* work, and are working with you to make it so

[PeteG@Scan]

Yeah, I agree with the 6 sticks over 3 as far as cost and likelyhood of needing more for the next few years. And yes that's what I'm saying as far as compatability goes for this set up, and if it doesn't work currently we'll just have to bend some ears until it does!