Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

  1. #1
    HEXUS.admin
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    31,709
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    2,073 times in 719 posts

    News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    The real question is, can a programming language itself be licensed?
    Read more.

  2. #2
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    This is just ridiculous. That's like saying, well yeah, you can use English for free, but you have to pay for the words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  3. #3
    Now 100% Apple free cheesemp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Near the New forest
    Posts
    2,948
    Thanks
    354
    Thanked
    255 times in 173 posts
    • cheesemp's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS TUF x570-plus
      • CPU:
      • Ryzen 3600
      • Memory:
      • 16gb Corsair RGB ram
      • Storage:
      • 256Gb NVMe + 500Gb TcSunbow SDD (cheap for games only)
      • Graphics card(s):
      • RX 480 8Gb Nitro+ OC (with auto OC to above 580 speeds!)
      • PSU:
      • Cooler Master MWE 750 bronze
      • Case:
      • Gamemax f15m
      • Operating System:
      • Win 11
      • Monitor(s):
      • 32" QHD AOC Q3279VWF
      • Internet:
      • FTTC ~35Mb

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    I don't understand what Oracle are looking for with this except a big cheque - its not like Java was even the reason they bought sun in the first place (MySQL being the real reason). Its just money driving this as usual with all these stupid patient cases!
    Trust

    Laptop : Dell Inspiron 1545 with Ryzen 5500u, 16gb and 256 NVMe, Windows 11.

  4. #4
    Gentoo Ricer
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Galway
    Posts
    11,048
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    944 times in 704 posts
    • aidanjt's system
      • Motherboard:
      • Asus Strix Z370-G
      • CPU:
      • Intel i7-8700K
      • Memory:
      • 2x8GB Corsiar LPX 3000C15
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 960 EVO
      • Graphics card(s):
      • EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0
      • PSU:
      • EVGA G3 750W
      • Case:
      • Fractal Design Define C Mini
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro
      • Monitor(s):
      • Asus MG279Q
      • Internet:
      • 240mbps Virgin Cable

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    I think a big fat cheque is more than enough of a reason to motivate Oracle to litigate. Microsoft is getting a free cut of the Android pie, they might as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    ...every time Creative bring out a new card range their advertising makes it sound like they have discovered a way to insert a thousand Chuck Norris super dwarfs in your ears...

  5. #5
    Oh Crumbs.... Biscuit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N. Yorkshire
    Posts
    11,193
    Thanks
    1,394
    Thanked
    1,091 times in 833 posts
    • Biscuit's system
      • Motherboard:
      • MSI B450M Mortar
      • CPU:
      • AMD 2700X (Be Quiet! Dark Rock 3)
      • Memory:
      • 16GB Patriot Viper 2 @ 3466MHz
      • Storage:
      • 500GB WD Black
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Sapphire R9 290X Vapor-X
      • PSU:
      • Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
      • Case:
      • Lian Li PC-V359
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 x64
      • Internet:
      • BT Infinity 80/20

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    hey we developed this thing and allowed people to use it for free... but we weren't expecting anything to be this successful so we want some money for it.

  6. Received thanks from:

    mikerr (16-04-2012)

  7. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife (Scotland)
    Posts
    4,991
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked
    220 times in 190 posts
    • crossy's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Sabertooth X99
      • CPU:
      • Intel 5830k / Noctua NH-D15
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850Pro NVMe, 1TB Samsung 850EVO SSD, 1TB Seagate SSHD, 2TB WD Green, 8TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix GTX970OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX750 (modular)
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster HAF932 (with wheels)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit, Ubuntu 16.04LTS
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG Flattron W2361V
      • Internet:
      • VirginMedia 200Mb

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Quote Originally Posted by aidanjt View Post
    I think a big fat cheque is more than enough of a reason to motivate Oracle to litigate. Microsoft is getting a free cut of the Android pie, they might as well.
    Actually, I'm of the opinion that Oracle probably should get a small license fee for the use of Java - not the billions that they're suggesting, (yes I know it says £630m in the article - but I'm sure I saw a billions figure in the initial foray by Oracle). In return, Google get to use the Java branding.

    I'm probably being naive, but surely being able to claim that Android is "based on Java" would be good PR for Oracle, in which case being heavy handed with Google seems silly. That said, I'd take a lot of convincing to be persuaded that Oracle aren't just totally evil. It's been well know that Dalvik is a Java VM for a long time, so it looks to me like Oracle's deliberately waited for it to be successful before pouncing - nothing to do with copyright/license infringement and everything to do with extortion!

    Small point though - I thought OpenSolaris was a community project - all be it one that Sun encouraged. From where I sit, Oracle's takeover of Sun just resulted in a lot of folks giving up on Solaris and moving to Linux. And as far as I'm concerned OpenOffice is a non-event compared to LibreOffice.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked
    7 times in 6 posts

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    hey we developed this thing and allowed people to use it for free... but we weren't expecting anything to be this successful so we want some money for it.
    exactly that - although it has to be said that Sun Microsystems probably wouldn't have gone down this route.

  9. #8
    Admin (Ret'd)
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    18,481
    Thanks
    1,016
    Thanked
    3,208 times in 2,281 posts

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Quote Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
    hey we developed this thing and allowed people to use it for free... but we weren't expecting anything to be this successful so we want some money for it.
    Or rather, we bought the company that developed this thing, and .... etc.

    I don't have a problem with a company developing a language, and then expecting to profit from commercialisation of it's efforts. I do have a problem with them developing it, getting everybody using it and only then trying to exert a commercial stranglehold on it. It's analogous to a drug dealer giving away his product until everyone's hooked, and then jacking the price right up, and shows, in my opinion, about the same level of morality.

    If Java had been held close as commercially valuable and usable only by licence from day one, what chance it would have any significant market penetration? IMHO, next to zero.

    It is valuable now because and only because of the degree of market penetration it has, and it has that only because it was freely available to use. The value is because we, the users, are using it, and because a vast array of independent developers developed for it.

    In my view, not only has this horse has bolted, but it bolted so long ago that the disused stable is near to collapse. This is sheer, naked opportunism by Oracle, and stinks.

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife (Scotland)
    Posts
    4,991
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked
    220 times in 190 posts
    • crossy's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Sabertooth X99
      • CPU:
      • Intel 5830k / Noctua NH-D15
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850Pro NVMe, 1TB Samsung 850EVO SSD, 1TB Seagate SSHD, 2TB WD Green, 8TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix GTX970OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX750 (modular)
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster HAF932 (with wheels)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit, Ubuntu 16.04LTS
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG Flattron W2361V
      • Internet:
      • VirginMedia 200Mb

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    If Java had been held close as commercially valuable and usable only by licence from day one, what chance it would have any significant market penetration? IMHO, next to zero.
    Wasn't this the position that C#/.NET was in - Microsoft held it as a Windows-only technology, but now they've seen sense and allowed some degree of open sourcing (e.g. Mono) then it's starting to take off? Certainly that seems to be the buzz around the programming-related sites that I follow - now it's cross-platform to a degree (Windows, Linux, iOS and Android) and available on reasonable license term it's worth considering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    In my view, not only has this horse has bolted, but it bolted so long ago that the disused stable is near to collapse. This is sheer, naked opportunism by Oracle, and stinks.
    True - then again, I'd quietly argue that Oracle is possibly due some small return on the continuing investment in Java. I can kind of see their point that Google is perhaps "ripping them off" by duplicating the API. Where I differ is in what's owed - I would have thought that some figure <$5 per device would be incredibly generous to Oracle, and I would have thought $1-2 more realistic.

    No, where I think they're being particularly idiotic is that they (Oracle) seem to be insistent that Google stops using Dalvik. That's kind of like Mercedes Benz trying to stop other car companies using petrol engines.

    Never thought I'd be in the position of defending Oracle - a company which I have little, (tending to "no"!), respect for.

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    528
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked
    42 times in 35 posts

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Frankly I just wish Google had gone C++, realising that Android runs almost exclusively on ARM and simply made a standard API for future x86 compiling options.

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife (Scotland)
    Posts
    4,991
    Thanks
    393
    Thanked
    220 times in 190 posts
    • crossy's system
      • Motherboard:
      • ASUS Sabertooth X99
      • CPU:
      • Intel 5830k / Noctua NH-D15
      • Memory:
      • 32GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4
      • Storage:
      • 500GB Samsung 850Pro NVMe, 1TB Samsung 850EVO SSD, 1TB Seagate SSHD, 2TB WD Green, 8TB Seagate
      • Graphics card(s):
      • Asus Strix GTX970OC
      • PSU:
      • Corsair AX750 (modular)
      • Case:
      • Coolermaster HAF932 (with wheels)
      • Operating System:
      • Windows 10 Pro 64bit, Ubuntu 16.04LTS
      • Monitor(s):
      • LG Flattron W2361V
      • Internet:
      • VirginMedia 200Mb

    Re: News - Google and Oracle take the fight over Java in Android to court

    Quote Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
    Frankly I just wish Google had gone C++, realising that Android runs almost exclusively on ARM and simply made a standard API for future x86 compiling options.
    I thought Intel's aim was to remove that exclusivity - didn't they say that they were working on porting ICS?

    Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •