Microsoft fixing Windows 10 CU gaming performance issues

[HEXUS]

And Microsoft has increased the Windows Store device limit from 10 to 2,000, says report.

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[Corky34]

Wasn't this new way of doing Windows meant to make fixing problems quicker? All the data they hold about customers, replacing their professional software testers with willing guinea pigs, enforced updates to make it easier to maintain and its take over six months just to acknowledge that there's a problem.

[aniilv]

Wasn't this new way of doing Windows meant to make fixing problems quicker? All the data they hold about customers, replacing their professional software testers with willing guinea pigs, enforced updates to make it easier to maintain and its take over six months just to acknowledge that there's a problem.

6 months is quick by microsoft standarts. It used to take years to fix simple bugs.

[scaryjim]

Wasn't this new way of doing Windows meant to make fixing problems quicker? All the data they hold about customers, replacing their professional software testers with willing guinea pigs, enforced updates to make it easier to maintain and its take over six months just to acknowledge that there's a problem.

Seriously? You think you take a quick look at a couple of traces and the problem just jumps out at you?

Occasionally, you'll get a problem like that. But very rarely, and even less often in release software, which has generally had all those easy to spot problems ironed out. Six months to identify the causes of a variety of problems that don't affect all users is pretty damn good. I've had intermittent problems in software I've written that I've never been able to diagnose and fix, and that's in far less complex environments where I've controlled pretty much every factor that could be causing the problem.

Given the huge variance in Windows 10 platforms, driver levels, conflicting software and lord knows what else, just getting to the point where you can identify which bit of software (is it Windows? A driver? A background task conflicting with something?) is actually causing the problem is pretty hard. Following that up with identifying why it's causing a problem and how it can be fixed? Yeah, it's a lot of work.

Windows 10 Fall Creators Update will start to roll out from 17th October. Hopefully these gaming fixes can be rolled into that release for all users.

If it's just being rolled into the fast ring now, that seems unlikely. I'd be surprised if the content for the Fall Creator's Update isn't already finalised and packaged...

[shaithis]

Just wish they could bundle these changes as service packs and/or hotfixes, rather then a Windows upgrade 3-4 times a year. We all know upgrades leave crud behind

[Corky34]

Seriously? You think you take a quick look at a couple of traces and the problem just jumps out at you?

I didn't say anything about taking a quick look at a couple of traces and the problem just jumping out, if things were that easy we'd have far less bugs.

However people expect certain standards and when those standards aren't maintained then it becomes a concern, and rightly so IMO, if you'd always bought a particular make of car because they were reliable, well made, and high quality you probably wouldn't be to happy if you bought their new model only to find out it kept breaking down, bits of trim kept falling off, and they replaced the leather trimmed seats with some fauk leather that stuck to your legs in the summer.

Perhaps i should have been blunter instead of just implying that this new way of doing Windows is awful in terms of quality control.

[scaryjim]

Just wish they could bundle these changes as service packs ...

That's effectively what the new "updates" are - we're getting two a year and they're far smaller than a new "version" of windows. They're issued more frequently than Service Packs for previous versions of Windows. And we're still getting monthly quality and ... what was it? security? ... updates. We're just getting a six-monthly roll-up of the less critical fixes and a few new features. It's really not that different to how things have been since the Windows XP days...

[scaryjim]

... Perhaps i should have been blunter instead of just implying that this new way of doing Windows is awful in terms of quality control.

Perhaps you should say what you expect, rather than just making a blanket statement about something not being good enough? Your expectations might still be unreasonable, but then at least I'd know what you think should happen, rather than just what you think shouldn't...

I can't remember a version of Windows that hasn't at some point had an automatic update roll out that hasn't borked something horribly. I've had to fix a few myself. It's inevitable; MS simply can't test every possible combination or software and hardware that an update might encounter. The thread hexus link (pointing out that some of the issues were easy to fix) actually points to three different fixes in the first page, which kind of indicates that this is a collection of related conflicts in software rather than a single issue. And as such, it's going to take time to track down and fix each cause.

As it is, this is entirely typical for Windows. I'm not quite sure if you were really expecting Windows 10 to suffer no update-related issues at all, but if so I'd suggest that's a shade naive, given the complex ecosystem that Windows 10 is deployed into.

[Corky34]

Perhaps you should say what you expect, rather than just making a blanket statement about something not being good enough? Your expectations might still be unreasonable, but then at least I'd know what you think should happen, rather than just what you think shouldn't...

I'm not sure how clearer i can be when i say that this new way of doing Windows is awful in terms of quality control, the key term there being new, as in the old system was better, as in the new way of doing Windows with huge amounts of data gathered about customers, as in replacing professional software testers, as in enforced updates is resulting in poor quality software when compared to the old model of maintaining, testing, releasing updates and new versions of Windows.

I can't remember a version of Windows that hasn't at some point had an automatic update roll out that hasn't borked something horribly. I've had to fix a few myself. It's inevitable; MS simply can't test every possible combination or software and hardware that an update might encounter. The thread hexus link (pointing out that some of the issues were easy to fix) actually points to three different fixes in the first page, which kind of indicates that this is a collection of related conflicts in software rather than a single issue. And as such, it's going to take time to track down and fix each cause.

Indeed, but in the past you could avoid that update until it was proven to be stable or wait until the issues were fixed in an update to the update, or sometime even an update to the updated update, for example you could wait a month or six before installing a service pack.

I'm not saying Windows has never had problems with updates in the past, far from it, however when comparing this new way of doing Windows with the old way it seems quality has taken a back seat.

[scaryjim]

... in the past you could avoid that update until it was proven to be stable or wait until the issues were fixed in an update to the update, or sometime even an update to the updated update, for example you could wait a month or six before installing a service pack ...

Not for all of them, and given automatic updates have been prevalent since Windows XP for the vast majority of people the first they knew about a borked update would be when their computer suddenly stopped working after the update installed itself.

... when comparing this new way of doing Windows with the old way it seems quality has taken a back seat. ...

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion? This is a relatively minor issue, that's impacted a small number of people, had a number of workarounds identified very quickly (some of which were related to third party software), and is still being investigated and further fixes put in place. I don't think it tells us anything about the quality of Windows 10 or its update process.

I'm pretty sure I remember several far more catastrophic bad updates for XP and Vista, that hit much greater numbers of people and had more serious impacts then dropping the framerates of games. I've yet to see anything in Windows 10 to make me think that it's objectively worse in terms of quality control than any previous version of Windows.

[Corky34]

Not for all of them, and given automatic updates have been prevalent since Windows XP for the vast majority of people the first they knew about a borked update would be when their computer suddenly stopped working after the update installed itself.

I can't think of an update that you couldn't avoid for a prolonged period of time, IIRC the only update that had a mandatory install date were the service packs and even then you'd have something like 2 years before non-updated system would no longer be supported.

Yes automatic updates have been prevalent since Windows XP but i can only assume you've forgotten how automatic updates worked in the past as IIRC it would only automatically instal important updates (security issues, system instability fixes) and recommended and optional would need user intervention.

Speaking of people only knowing about automatic updates being a borked update that's probably true, however after that first borked update they definitely knew about it after that and most likely disabled automatic updates from that point on

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion? This is a relatively minor issue, that's impacted a small number of people, had a number of workarounds identified very quickly (some of which were related to third party software), and is still being investigated and further fixes put in place. I don't think it tells us anything about the quality of Windows 10 or its update process.

Because it's not just this relatively minor issue that's effecting a small number of people with workarounds being identified quickly is it, i don't think a month goes by without reports of unfixed issues or that months update causing problems, something Microsoft said of this new way of doing Windows was going to produce fewer problems and result in quicker fixes.

[tag75]

Just wish they could bundle these changes as service packs and/or hotfixes, rather then a Windows upgrade 3-4 times a year. We all know upgrades leave crud behind

I agree with you

[scaryjim]

... i can only assume you've forgotten how automatic updates worked in the past as IIRC it would only automatically install important updates (security issues, system instability fixes) and recommended and optional would need user intervention. ...

Given I was working in tech support throughout the lifetime of Windows XP, I don't think I'll ever forget how it worked.

And what it installed automatically depended on how your computer was set up - many people will have had recommended updates for both Windows and other MS software installed automatically. And some updates turned automatic installing of recommended updates on even if you'd previously turned it off.

Sure, for certain power users who were used to a particular way of doing things and degree of control, the new update pattern will feel uncomfortable. And if you're one of those, I can understand you being put out when an update does do something unexpected. But to jump from there to ... what was the exact phrase? ... "it seems quality has taken a back seat", is a remarkable jump in logic.

... i don't think a month goes by without reports of unfixed issues or that months update causing problems ...

Citations and I'll start listening. Clear evidence that these issues are caused by Microsoft's code and not faulty hardware/poorly written drivers/third party software and I'll doff my cap to you. "I don't think" isn't an argument.

That said, I'd agree that the number of issues arising certainly doesn't seem to have decreased, and that the situation isn't significantly better then in previous generations (although my anecdotal take would be that we've not seen any major/serious issues arise yet). Whether 2 years is a sufficient time=span to judge Windows 10's update quality vs any other version is debatable, though...

[MLyons]

The only time I've ever been inconvenienced by an automatic update is at work. Even then i just decided to have my lunch. Properly setup I'm yet to see windows boot you out of the OS apart from when doing a fresh install and even then you can avoid it if you aren't in a rush (DR was starting to get frustrated about my PC troubles and was close to throwing it out a window so i ended up accidentally doing a massive update .)

[peterb]

Even then i just decided to have my lunch.

LUNCH???? They let you have time off for LUNCH????

[MLyons]

LUNCH???? They let you have time off for LUNCH????