What optimal home backup setup ? NAS ?

[rmaciag]

Have not been on Hexus forum for a while ...


My current "backup setup" is not really working.
Till now we had two key PCs with two dedicated backup HDs.
It had some sense but, as you can imagine, we were not very strict with backup schedule.
Of course it is all fine until ... something happens. And it happened ...


Now we have 3 PCs and ... some lessons learnt hard way ...
Going forward I aim to put in place a better system.
What I got in mind is NAS.

Assumptions :
3 PCs = 2 laptops + 1 tower, total max available HD capacity of all systems c. 2T
Main task for NAS would be to handle regular backups + potentially media storage with DLNA functionality.
NAS hardwired to gigabit WiFi router.
I am not sure what RAID config should be required / optimal.
Possibly a mix of 0 and 1 across 4 drives or is RAID 0 an over kill for home NAS use ?
Then 2 HDs in RAID 1 config, I suppose.

I need some advice re: key questions ...

Which NAS device / manufacturer would you recommend ?
As you can imagine I am looking for a best value for money product.
I do not want to spend ££££s on it but I want a reliable, well performing, easy to use solution.
From what I have read so far opinions are mixed but it seems products from Buffalo and, especially, Synology are generally preferred.
While I used Seagate and WD HDs in the past (and seem to trust WD more than Seagate which failed first and quite early) then WD's NAS products tend to be accused for failing quite often.

I understand the NAS enclosures tend to come without disks so ... What sort of HDs should I load into them ? WDs Scorpio Black or something of similar quality ? Or is it a usual gamble so I just go for something reasonably priced ?

I want to configure automatic backups over the network.
Should I use dedicated software to run backups or would Windows process suffice ? Two PCs still run XP while one is on Windows 7. On one of them I have CMS Backup software (now upgraded) that originally came with one of the external drives. I have mixed opinion about this software as it occassionally stops working while backing up key C: drive (via FireWire).

Then I thought I could use current backup HDs for "system backups" that do not need to be so frequent. Does it make sense ?

I will appreciate your views.

[capt_cornflake]

I'm considering the same thing at the moment, and I think I've settled on an HP Microserver (~£120 after cashback).

It's a bit bigger than most NASs (having 4 bays) but seems to be much more flexible (and without being dependent on a particular vendors closed OS). It would also allow for other functionality at a later date - I'm initially hoping to use it for backups and media server, but may stick a DVB tuner card in it at a later date as well.
Downsides are that it slightly more expensive (but not that much), and will require a bit of effort to setup.

If you are planning on using RAID to achieve 2T+ of storage, the bulk of your cost is likely to be on the HDDs anyway.

[dangel]

n40L Microserver.

Why buy an underfeatured NAS when you can have a full blown low power PC? It's a fantastic bit of kit, wonderfully packaged and actually good enough to use for a whole range of things. Love mine.

[jim]

I'd buy a couple of 3TB disks and stick them in the microserver, put them on RAID1 via hardware then use FreeNAS/Openfiler/Windows/WHS/Server 200*.

[directhex]

Bin the lot (or ebay it)

Pay for cloud backup, e.g. crashplan, which has no space limit.

[KaKTy3]

Bin the lot (or ebay it)

Pay for cloud backup, e.g. crashplan, which has no space limit.

I agree. JBOD for media (which can be easilly replaced with a bit of time) and a cloud-bases service (of which I'd be buying Crashplan, if I didn't have a two year deal elsewhere already) for all sensitive personal data is the ticket!

[rmaciag]

I will appreciate your views.

Thank you all for your valuable replies.
Excellent food for thought.
I just need to digest it.


Since my opening post I had a closer look at Synology products so I think I know much more now about what NAS solution has on offer and for how much ...
As it stands I cannot justify building RAID 0 or 5 solution as speeds achieved by RAID1 config could be more than sufficient for our low end use.
Therefore I cannot justify buying 4 bay expensive models and something like DS212+ looks like the best (still expensive) option.
What I need to check in detail is how much space I will really need. Max that I could put together as RAID 1 would be 3TB (2x 3TB HDDs) and it will not be cheap (c. 220-280 depending on what HDDs I buy and from where).

HP microserver looks like a bargain. I agree.
Immediately I see some pros and cons vs NAS like Synology.
PROS
- yes, full flexibility
- good price for the base hardware
- 4 bays
CONS
- needs HDDs as any other empty NAS case
- no OS so I will need to get hold of one, somehow
- full responsibility for server configuration on my shoulders but these days I just do not have enough spare time to do so (where do I plug the monitor to it )

Crashplan etc
Looks good.
That will suite a household with a large bandwidth internet connection, I suppose.
I do not have one.
Price wise, OK, the cost is nicely spread vs up front expense on NAS or server.
You pay, but like with other services these days - just to point at iTunes, you do not actually own anything. The service is available today but it might be gone tomorrow. At least theoretically. This is more of a psychological barrier than anything else, I guess. I need to deal with it somehow.
One drawback I see is that while this solution addresses the key backup requirement then it does not really offer nice-to-haves like media centre ... unless your internet connection can handle that ...

Anyway this is a good starting point for me for further exploration.
Today my main concern is the cost of replacing LCD in my daughter's XPS 15Z.

[dangel]

My N40L has no keyboard, monitor or mouse. Why would it? Once it's setup it lives in a cupboard and I remote control it from another PC, my phone or my tablet. Remote Desktop, Teamviewer. Multiple solutions.

Cloud backup.. oh please.

[capt_cornflake]

Cloud can play an important part, particularly if you have no other "off site" backup.
I don't plan on using it for anything other than an important subset of stuff though.

[jim]

Agreed. But I'm not planning to put 2TB into the cloud any time soon.

[rmaciag]

My N40L has no keyboard, monitor or mouse. Why would it? Once it's setup it lives in a cupboard and I remote control it from another PC, my phone or my tablet. Remote Desktop, Teamviewer. Multiple solutions.

In "established state" surely it can quietly live somewhere under my desk ...

What worries me is how to get it to that state. Without a keyboard, without any display ?


I just feel I lack the necessary experience to set up the thing. On other hand that could be an interesting adventure for me.

I had a quick look at suggested FreeNAS. OK, so I have an option of a free OS. Excellent. I located some documentation and installation instructions. OK, it sounds fine. I should be able to cope with it if I have sufficient spare time.

As the key deliverable of the project would be a backup solution then ... do you know, guys, what sort of backup software would be required to run under FreeNAS ? Or is there functionality like that built into FreeNAS from the start ? Commercial products tend to have this functionality effectivelly built-in by default as it is one of their key selling points.

OK, I understand that rather than asking questions here I should really first read and then ask any questions on dedicated forums like FreeNAS one.
However at this initial stage I just need a high level picture of what will be required from me in terms of money and time to set up a working backup system based on HP microserver / FreeNAS (for example). Of course, if I go for out-of-the-shelf NAS system then all components (except HDDs, may be) are all in place ready for set up and also they are tested to be working more or less correctly in most common configurations.
With N40L I will have to, more or less, guess what components, in terms of both hardware and software, I may need.

Could you direct me to any site that actually describes how such a N40L-based NAS can be built and configured ? If I can convince myself that N40L NAS project is within my reach then, well, i may opt for it. Otherwise I will stick to one of the Synology (or similar) products.

[dangel]

In "established state" surely it can quietly live somewhere under my desk ...

What worries me is how to get it to that state. Without a keyboard, without any display ?

You hook it up to configure it to the point where remote control is possible then after, it's not necessary. Assuming you have another PC then you probably have a keyboard, monitor and mouse you could borrow for an hour? There's stacks of N40L info on the web (AVForums has plenty) and you've a choice of any OS (even free ones). They're very popular.
The N40L arrives as a complete working PC - it already has a hard disk, memory, graphics, cpu etc. You only need fill it with drives and setup an OS of your choosing.

[rmaciag]

...
The N40L arrives as a complete working PC - it already has a hard disk, memory, graphics, cpu etc. You only need fill it with drives and setup an OS of your choosing.

Thanks.

I download all sorts of documents today, started to read all this stuff and it is becoming all clear now ...
I can hook up my monioor etc to perform setup and once the box is running just leave it like that and access it remotely.
It all starts to make sense.

What I read is that the AMD chipset supports RAID 0 and 1. FreeNAS documentation recommends to use its own software level RAID solution over what the chipset ("hardware") has on offer.
What I had in mind initially is something like RAID10 as the N40L has 4 bays available.
What I like about FreeNAS is that it can reside on a USB stick and the N40L seems to have internal USB port.
Can N40L be configured into RAID 10 with 4 HDDs ?

I am also looking at Windows Home Server 2011 OS.
Has anybody installed that on N40L ?
All I see are 64 bit versions for about 30-40 quid (OEM) and I cannot figure out (yet) if they are compatible with N40L.
HP site only states "Tested". Hmmm ...

[dangel]

WHS installs are quite common on it - from what i've read anyway. It's possible to fit more than four drives too seeing as it as an internal SATA port for the CDROM (which can be re-purposed with a custom bios) as well as an e-SATA port on the back (which some have looped back into the case). I just stuck Win 7 on mine but then I had the licence anyway and all i'm using it for (so far) is just to share the drives onto the network for other PCs.

Get reading, have fun!

[rmaciag]

Quick update about the N40L build.

Decided to be adventurous and went ahead with HP's Microserver solution (rather than with off-the-shelf NAS box).

Just completed the first phase of the build – hardware and BIOS are all in place and configured, as far as I can judge.
Read a lot, understood some ... then played a bit ...

At the end :
- bought all parts
- created BIOS recovery stick
- flashed BIOS with mod version from USB
- added RAM
- removed stock HDD
- inserted 2 pairs of RAID1 WD Caviar Green HDDs
- plugged SSD (for WHS2011 OS) into ODD port that is now enabled for HDD
- used WDIDLE3.EXE to set WD's idle3 to /S300 (5 mins)

So far so good ...


Now the real fun starts ...
WHS2011 installation.
In principle I know what steps to follow to create bootable USB stick with WHS2011 installation.
However one crucial info is missing and while I am going to search the net for the answer then you may know it instantly.

The process requires .ISO image of WHS2011 installation.
I do not know how to create a proper one.
I bought WHS2011 OEM and, as you can imagine, it came as OPK package with 3 discs (WSS OPK, WHS2011 Install and Client Computer Restore).
Excellent ...

I have not built any systems for some years now so I missed the whole OPK game completely.
Started to read about it.
OK, in simple words, it seems to be a process of "preinstalling" OEM-customised OS on customers' PCs.
Add this, add that. Make it run unattended. Bla, bla, bla ...

I do not need that stuff ...
I do not need any "preinstallation" ... I need installation ...
And I am even happy with the "attended" install.
So how to make this ISO image that I can transfer to USB stick ?

I guess it could be as simple as ... creating ISO image of the entire WHS2011 installation DVD.
Or does it sound too simple ?
I assume Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe takes care of Windows PE etc.

Found some guidance here :
http://www.groovypost.com/howto/inst...onnect-client/
but Brian used downloaded ISO image so he just burned it to DVD (and his server had ODD while mine has not).

I am really getting convinced I just need to create ISO image of the media I bought, then use Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe and cut all this OPK c**p.

Or even simpler, found some info that supports what I suspected from the start :
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...a-0da7d080d2bf

Forget about an .iso as you can do it the following way:
• Create a bootable USB drive - http://sbs.seandaniel.com/2009/10/ho...-bootable.html
• Copy the contents of your installation DVD to the root of the USB drive
• Boot from the USB drive and continue.

Wish me luck ...

[pp05]

Bin the lot (or ebay it)

Pay for cloud backup, e.g. crashplan, which has no space limit.

Cloud backup, is this your files and not the OS image itself?