Hard-drive Prices Have Gone Crazy

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

One subtle detail I’m not sure everyone has picked up on... the amount of data written per plot is greater than the size of the temporary files created on your SSD. There appears to be a recursive aspect to the plot-making process concealed by the headline plot file sizes being quoted. From memory, I believe Der Bauer measured the real figure as being 1.4TB per plot! That really puts a finite lifetime on even a 3600 TBW SSD. Then there’s the high power draw throughout the plotting process and the 24/7 ‘farming’ which you have to keep up to remain synced with the blockchain and an active player ‘in the Chia lottery’.

I don’t fancy the odds with Chia... but might buy shares in Seagate and the power grid instead :-D

A single plot is going to use upto 1.8TB of writes during its creation. So that is around 2000 plots at around 109GB each. So technically closer to 220TB,but still for the average person its the amount of storage which is the problem here. Even if you are paying £200 for a 12TB HDD,you looking at over £2000 just for the storage as a JBOD.

[DanceswithUnix]

A single plot is going to use upto 1.8TB of writes during its creation. So that is around 2000 plots at around 109GB each. So technically closer to 220TB,but still for the average person its the amount of storage which is the problem here. Even if you are paying £200 for a 12TB HDD,you looking at over £2000 just for the storage as a JBOD.

There was also that test done a while back where they wrote a bunch of SSDs to destruction. That showed many going massively past their warranted write life.

I think this was it: https://techreport.com/review/27909/...eyre-all-dead/


You are more likely to be lucky on SSD life than you are on farming a Chia

OFC if mining pools mean you have to throw away your plots and start again, then that's pretty sucky for your SSD write life.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

There was also that test done a while back where they wrote a bunch of SSDs to destruction. That showed many going massively past their warranted write life.

I think this was it: https://techreport.com/review/27909/...eyre-all-dead/


You are more likely to be lucky on SSD life than you are on farming a Chia

OFC if mining pools mean you have to throw away your plots and start again, then that's pretty sucky for your SSD write life.

Well even if I was to fill the 8TB disc I got hold off recently,I would barely write 144TB(assuming file uses 1.8TB of writes) and at £170ish a pop for decent SMR 8TB HDDs,I don't really think I want to spend anymore! One of my SSDs is a secondhand enterprise grade SSD,which has a write endurance of over 6000TB. What I found more surprising is how much faster it seems,than an MX500 in certain scenarios.

BTW,I am not sure if you are aware,the Corsair MP510 has been stealth replaced by the MP510B with significantly less endurance.

[DanceswithUnix]

BTW,I am not sure if you are aware,the Corsair MP510 has been stealth replaced by the MP510B with significantly less endurance.

After the one I got with my wife's machine, the software was such a nightmare I think I'm done with Corsair for SSDs.

My last one was a WD 750. Got a good deal on that, direct from WD.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

After the one I got with my wife's machine, the software was such a nightmare I think I'm done with Corsair for SSDs.

My last one was a WD 750. Got a good deal on that, direct from WD.

I have the slightly earlier WD SN700. Funnily enough it used to randomly disconnect,when I first got it. However,with newer drivers/updates and BIOS revisions it hasn't done it.

[KultiVator]

A single plot is going to use upto 1.8TB of writes during its creation.

Yeah - a 100GB plot that takes ~1.8TB of SSD writes to create - plus another write to conventional HDD at the end of the process and all of the CPU time and power used during the multi-hour computation cycle... that's a pretty crappy misuse of resources for most rational people, given the payback odds (even allowing for uncertainties around pooling / dilution / Chia network expansion rate / etc).

still for the average person its the amount of storage which is the problem here. Even if you are paying £200 for a 12TB HDD,you looking at over £2000 just for the storage as a JBOD.

Agreed - it's also a moving target - unless you keep plotting and expanding your storage, your odds constantly decline - literally by the second - and you become the Cheetah chasing a photon I spoke of in an earlier post.

I'm not an out and out tree-hugger - but this doesn't bode well for calming the human excesses that have fueled climate change.

[KultiVator]

One of my SSDs is a secondhand enterprise grade SSD,which has a write endurance of over 6000TB.

Now that's a proper Chia-mining SSD - depending on how much action it has seen in service.

[..] the Corsair MP510 has been stealth replaced by the MP510B with significantly less endurance.

That's the sneaky kind of thing TeamGroup have been up to as well - downgrading the spec of both the FLASH type and/or Cache specs without changing the model name / number.

[Zak33]

Crazy bit is you have been able to "mine" with hdds for some years, and again in a much more productive way than Chia.

Storj is a way of people basically renting their hdd space and broadband traffic out for cloud storage. That's a useful service, for which people are willing to pay money.

and Storj is a coin too, to trade as Crypto. It's an effective model

[DanceswithUnix]

and Storj is a coin too, to trade as Crypto. It's an effective model

Yeah, seems a pretty neat idea.

For those that haven't seen it: Nodes look pretty easy to set up, users buy Storj, then use it to buy cloud storage services, miners make Storj by providing the storage service and sell the Storj coins back to the users.

There is also Filecoin which seems to have some interesting ideas, but also seems to come with much higher hardware requirements.

[Saracen999]

Yeah, seems a pretty neat idea.

For those that haven't seen it: Nodes look pretty easy to set up, users buy Storj, then use it to buy cloud storage services, miners make Storj by providing the storage service and sell the Storj coins back to the users.

There is also Filecoin which seems to have some interesting ideas, but also seems to come with much higher hardware requirements.

That does seem like a much more stable, and inherently useful, model than 'standard' cryptocurrencies which, regardless of the original intent, seem to have transmuted into some kind of 'get-rich-quick' Ponzi scheme that messes up hardware markets and it seems, the environment at the same time. At least Storj, which I'd never heard of, works by providing an actually useful service where user demand is the limiting factor.

But either way, personally, I can't be bothered. I'll stick to just buying (when you can get it, grrr!) what storage I need for my own purposes and using it myelf, not either using cloud storage services, or providing space and renting it out.

[KultiVator]

Storj [..] seems a pretty neat idea.

Agreed - and at least Storj's premise is based on providing a useful service from the resources that are consumed.

[KultiVator]

Elon has had a rethink on Bitcoin... also raises questions that might begin to alter public perception of crypto-currencies:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...re/?comments=1

[Output]

At least Storj, which I'd never heard of, works by providing an actually useful service where user demand is the limiting factor.

It's certainly an interesting idea, but I'd be paranoid about someone using it to store something illegal, which could obviously get the hoster in deep trouble.

But either way, personally, I can't be bothered. I'll stick to just buying (when you can get it, grrr!) what storage I need for my own purposes and using it myelf, not either using cloud storage services, or providing space and renting it out.

Same here, it's just too much hassle in the end to do it for anyone else's stuff - especially as you'll obviously need that space at some point anyway, hence buying it in the first place.

[KultiVator]

It's certainly an interesting idea, but I'd be paranoid about someone using it to store something illegal, which could obviously get the hoster in deep trouble.

Thankfully Storj break files into small encrypted segments and no two segments for a single file are hosted on the same machine/node.

The laws in most countries would have you be no more responsible for unknowingly hosting a fragment of a dodgy file than a bank would be for inadvertently holding the fuse for a bomb in a customer's safety deposit box.

[ik9000]

Prices have indeed gone nuts. I spec'd out a NAS build a few months back and logged all the prices, and can confirm that for anything >10TB prices have lept substantially. Even between last night and today prices for 8TB NAS drives jumped. I just ordered a set of enterprise drives instead, and was lucky to be able to get those. They should work in a NAS SFAIK, albeit a bit noisier, but have a longer rated lifespan before failure. I should just have spent the money back in January. It's not worth waiting to see prices continue to leap.

[KultiVator]

Prices have indeed gone nuts. [..] I should just have spent the money back in January. It's not worth waiting to see prices continue to leap.

Sounds like your new NAS is going to be the mut's nuts!

Most of us probably didn't have a handle on the impact Chia was going to have until those first reports of shortages and prices rocketing in Asia about a month ago.

At least we now have parity in the price and availability of most components you might want to for a new PC build or rig upgrade :-(