Just because you have a 4WD

[Stringent]

Doesn't mean you can drive like this in the snow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hotRwTJsjCg

When it snowed really badly the other week, while my BMW was struggling, I had so many idiots drive like this past me with not a care in the world. 4WD doesn't stop if its icy. Plus also those with 4WD probably haven't got it in the right gear either ...

[Behemoth]

It was like that here not so long ago when it was very icy. People in 4x4's (Range Rover's, and Audi A4's) were going round like lunatics. Even on the A roads they were going much too fast for the conditions.

[aidanjt]

You've got a point about the ice, otherwise, AWDs have at least twice the traction you do, and it's especially evident in icy/snowy/wet conditions.

Before the Christmas holidays I was outside looking at a BMW trying to climb a 30 degree hill loaded with snow/slush, all it could do is slip and slide around and eventually had to give up and turn away from the hill.

Along comes an Audi and it drove up it like it was 40 degree searing hot tarmac.

They drive like lunatics because they can. It can all go horribly wrong, but that's life behind the wheel.

[Behemoth]

They drive like lunatics because they have no respect for the safety of other road users. I know that what I'm about to say is a little stereotypical (look at me using big words, probably spelt it wrong too !) but most german car drivers are arrogant fools anyway.

Please note that I'm not labeling them all, there are some drivers of such cars that aren't, but you don't see all that many of them on the roads.

[Bluecube]

Was that a BMW X5 that was going too fast? They're not 4x4 are they?

My funny story is watching some prat in a Range Rover thinking he could drive through three foot of snow... It was a good laugh seeing him get stuck!

[santa claus]

.....most german car drivers are arrogant fools anyway.

The Germans make an awful lot of (very good) cars.

Arrogance and foolishness are qualities seemingly not the preserve of German car drivers .

[kalniel]

You've got a point about the ice, otherwise, AWDs have at least twice the traction you do, and it's especially evident in icy/snowy/wet conditions.

Please explain. Under acceleration, yes, 2x the driving wheels. In all other applications of force to direct the vehicle (which are usually more important for safety), they have exactly the same number of braked and steering tyres as 2WD cars.

[ehhhhhhh]

having seen many awd vehicles in front of tescos, etc I noticed that only a few of them had proper winter tyres....imo awd has no real use without these tyres - and this is worrying that they think they can go as fast as they want ignoring the conditions.

[Andeh13]

Was that a BMW X5 that was going too fast? They're not 4x4 are they?

My funny story is watching some prat in a Range Rover thinking he could drive through three foot of snow... It was a good laugh seeing him get stuck!

Was an X5 and yes, they are all 4x4!

4x4s have twice the traction(4 wheels instead of 2 providing traction), but the same grip as any other car! (correct me if the wording is wrong). They are also far heavier then normal cars so momentum plays a bigger impact, and usually have big wide tires which don't cut through the snow as well!

They are better at getting up hills etc, but the minute they start skidding/trying to brake hard and they are no better then anything else on the road!

[abaxas]

You've got a point about the ice, otherwise, AWDs have at least twice the traction you do, and it's especially evident in icy/snowy/wet conditions.

Before the Christmas holidays I was outside looking at a BMW trying to climb a 30 degree hill loaded with snow/slush, all it could do is slip and slide around and eventually had to give up and turn away from the hill.

Along comes an Audi and it drove up it like it was 40 degree searing hot tarmac.

They drive like lunatics because they can. It can all go horribly wrong, but that's life behind the wheel.

Please learn the difference between grip and traction.

Grip is the adhesion to the surface.
Traction is grip with work applied.

4x4 or AWDs systems provide better traction but no more grip.

[aidanjt]

Traction is grip.

[Flibb]

varies greatly between models but from diving them for around 12 years, and recovering a fair few cars.

Engine breaking is also active on all 4 wheels, quiet a lot of multi use 4x4 tyres are also certified as suitable for winter driving, flasher ones have very advanced traction control and abs systems specifically designed for stopping in odd conditions, many have specific abs and traction control profiles for snow / ice.

I helped clear a fair few cars from a dual carriageway A-road when in snowed, none of the 4x4s had trouble stopping, many stopped to help recover cars, a surprising number had tow ropes, by far the worst drivers were in "sports" or large flash German cars.

[aidanjt]

Please explain. Under acceleration, yes, 2x the driving wheels. In all other applications of force to direct the vehicle (which are usually more important for safety), they have exactly the same number of braked and steering tyres as 2WD cars.

Nope, even going around the corners, AWD can usually yield considerably more traction from differential gearing. Braking, sure, they have to be a little more careful. But it doesn't change the fact that they go faster than ordinary cars, because the machine can do so.

[Funkstar]

I helped clear a fair few cars from a dual carriageway A-road when in snowed, none of the 4x4s had trouble stopping, many stopped to help recover cars, a surprising number had tow ropes, by far the worst drivers were in "sports" or large flash German cars.

A friend was telling me about an old guy near where he lives that spent a whole day towing cars, vans and even lorries up a hill in his beat up old Defender recently. When used right, these things are virtually unstoppable

[Golden Dragoon]

Was that a BMW X5 that was going too fast? They're not 4x4 are they?

My funny story is watching some prat in a Range Rover thinking he could drive through three foot of snow... It was a good laugh seeing him get stuck!

X5's are not what I would call a 4x4, if your a prat then yes they are 4x4's
Driven a LR defender through worse than 3ft of snow and not got stuck, it is less to do with what you are driving through, and more to do with how you drive through it imo.

A friend was telling me about an old guy near where he lives that spent a whole day towing cars, vans and even lorries up a hill in his beat up old Defender recently. When used right, these things are virtually unstoppable

Almost completely unstoppable, and nigh on indestructible, there isn't anything to go wrong with on them, basically everything is levers and mechanical knobs, no witchcraft, led's or electricity to tell the wheels what to do

[badass]

Traction is grip.

You are talking about something clearly ourside your areas of expertise.
In an automotive terminology, traction and grip are two related but different things.
Traction is purely about putting the power down. It is related to grip but certainly not the same thing. Grip is purely about how the car sticks to the road under acceleration, braking and cornering.
4WD, ESP, various differential technologies etc will improve traction but certianly not grip. Slam on the anchors and it doesn't matter how many driven wheels there are, you're taking just as long to stop. ESP will of course help you stop in the circumstances it is designed to work in but it's mainly about keeping the car stable when you're driving in a way that would make it unstable.