Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I can see this going really well for a Korean company with a US jury:

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/...-goes-to-jury/

Samsung argued that lawsuits haven’t emerged from competitors following the market trend sent by the leader, citing the emergence of full featured QWERTY phones on the market when Blackberry was the smartphone hegemon.

“Rather than compete in the marketplace, Apple is seeking a competitive edge through the courtroom,” said Samsung’s lead lawyer Charles Verhoeven. “It’s seeking to block its biggest and most serious competitor from even attending the game.”

Mr. Verhoeven warned jurors that the outcome of this case “could change the way competition works in this country” if Apple wins.

During Apple’s closing rebuttal, the company’s lawyers mocked and refuted Mr. Veroeven’s closing statements.

“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”

Bill Lee, Apple second lawyer who handed some witness testimony and cross examination concluded Apple’s rebuttal with one final address to the jury that was largely directed at Apple.

“Make your own designs, make your own phones, and compete on your own innovations.”

Re-affirm how great the broken US patent system is and Apple making their own phones with Samsung technology!!

I like how Apple is stoking up national sentiment by emphasising "American" to the jury and the economic benefits to America too.

I expect Apple to win,just because Samsung is Korean and the people in the jury probably would have no real intention of helping out a non-US company. So basically a screwed up patent system which helps US companies and a court system which helps them out too.

[aidanjt]

Yeah, it's ok for Apple to rip off Sony's designs because Sony is Japanese.

USA! USA! USA!

[ryandigweed]

Lol these guys will be after one another and keep ripping each other off and then filing law suits against each other to get a whole bunch of dough lol

[Barakka]

Re-affirm how great the broken US patent system is and Apple making their own phones with Samsung technology!!

Which is why when Apple offered an IP licencing deal to Samsung back in 2010 (before thinking about taking legal action) they had special provisions in there to reflect the fact that Samsung is a strategic supplier to Apple. Offering reduced royalty rates and a 20% discount overall if Samsung was willing to cross-licence patents in return.

This was a discounted version of the IP deal they offered to Microsoft, who took them up on the offer to licence Apple patents to use in the MS Surface products.

Really these two devices look similar ? Nooo....

[BobF64]

Cant be long now until the USA closes its borders and collectively sits around going "the precious is ours!".

[Smudger]

Which is why when Apple offered an IP licencing deal to Samsung back in 2010 (before thinking about taking legal action) they had special provisions in there to reflect the fact that Samsung is a strategic supplier to Apple. Offering reduced royalty rates and a 20% discount overall if Samsung was willing to cross-licence patents in return.

This was a discounted version of the IP deal they offered to Microsoft, who took them up on the offer to licence Apple patents to use in the MS Surface products.

Really these two devices look similar ? Nooo....

Weren't the terms offered ridiculously geared in Apple's favour? Did I imagine they wanted $30 a handset from them? And no, they don't look the same, similar, but not the same. In the same way as 2 modern cars will look similar, or every portable tape player looked similar to the Walkman, but not the same... Form follows function with phones...

[razer121]

This has really gotten out of hand, i do wonder when apple will just STFU and stop worrying about its competitors...

[Hicks12]

essentially Apple are saying Samsung copied because Samsung are selling a crap load , market competition stifling at its finest. Apple think that the device is a copy because it is square with smooth corners and has an app launcher... news flash there have been app launchers for many many years and the device design is simply the best for mobile phones, its funny how Apple said how the Nokia lumia looks nothing like Apple and is good but it does... its a phone with pointy corners thats the only difference and of course its Windows OS which really is totally different.


You cant own an image that is standard, I just dont understand how Apple can think that if you have an icon with a phone then its copying but its not as im pretty sure everyone uses those icons and samsung certainly has been using them longer than Apple!.

Btw that image comparison has been cropped, again another idiotic move by Apple to cheat and lie as they will never look the same when they are much larger!. I think Samsungs lawyers had the best comment in the fact that apple are after billions and spent loads on the trial etc on the basis that Samsung have copied and confused the customer so they end up with a samsung (apparently inferior) rather than an iPhone, but they have done no surveys... they have just made silly charts and 'witnesses' of the development team which of course would be lieing through their teeth to say they are stealing their idea. You would have thought Apple would have 1000000s of samples asking if people had got a samsung by mistake, the result probably would be <1% as it clearly states samsung on the front of the device and all other the boxes lol.

And another thing, Apple were talking crap about how Samsung didnt put any of their executives on the stand and that Apple were being honest by putting top dogs on, but I dont understand the point in that as the executives have no idea whats going on specifically, they manage the overall they wouldnt know when X Y Z were in development passed phase A B C. And the underoath bit is rather silly as its like saying just because no one found the body of someone you murdered makes you not a murderer but only until you're caught so basically you could lie through your teeth 'underoath' but until you're found out you will never know if its true or not.

One final thing, it certainly shouldnt be allowed in the US as its home ground, biased! We know the iPhone is most popular there, they should have put it in a neutralish country like the UK... oh wait Apple would back down then as they know they wouldnt get home advantage and lose a crap ton.

[dangel]

Weren't the terms offered ridiculously geared in Apple's favour? Did I imagine they wanted $30 a handset from them? And no, they don't look the same, similar, but not the same. In the same way as 2 modern cars will look similar, or every portable tape player looked similar to the Walkman, but not the same... Form follows function with phones...

Yes they were and I agree, smartphones ended up being similar out of necessity for the most part. I love the revolution that Apple spearheaded but in their terms it's more or less impossible to build a smartphone without treading on their toes.

The picture is an amusing comparison because really there's a lot of differences there from hardware asthetics to the UI displayed (ignoring the completely obvious 'grid' concept which Apple didn't pioneer).

Sad thing is this is all just business - this is how it works in our World thesedays and that's why Apple and Samsung are at the same time working together on projects outside the courtroom. Crazy.

[Dareos]

I wonder if the jury will be selected based on which mobile phone products they have

[pctech2012]

In any other case that would be an amusing prospect but in this one I think you are right.

Only winner will be the lawyers and a certain Canadian firm that took this course of action isn't doing too well right now.

[TooNice]

One final thing, it certainly shouldnt be allowed in the US as its home ground, biased! We know the iPhone is most popular there, they should have put it in a neutralish country like the UK... oh wait Apple would back down then as they know they wouldnt get home advantage and lose a crap ton.

iPhone is most popular there? I'd say that -subjectively- the iPhone is very popular in most countries, but going by sales (since I can't think of a more objective measurement), Samsung lead even in the US: http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events...r_Market_Share

Why should a US patent case be held anywhere in the US? Patents are only valid in the country it is granted, so it makes sense for legal battles in said country (the specifics of the laws are probably different too). Are you sure you aren't calling the UK "neutral" because Apple has already lost it's case here (pending appeal), and hold the view that it is the "right" verdict? By the way, Apple and Samsung are (were) also duking it out in South Korea (which lead to a split decision: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875), Australia and more (at least 10 countries).

Frankly speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome contains some bias. But not because it's the US (looking at US based forums, there no fewer anti-Apple voices to be heard). The problem is that online commenter seem to lean strongly on one side or the other, and it's making me wonder if we really get a jury who haven't made up their mind before the trial has started.

Some are implying that US court / jury will be biased toward an US company (possible but unprovable). But jurors are consumers, and I would argue that they can be just as biased toward Samsung because they a vested interest in the competition (also possible, but just as unprovable). Truth is, regardless of the outcome, accusations will fly.

BTW, I am hardly pro-Apple in this case. I would also hate to be in the jury. Perhaps evidence would sway me one way, but on the outset, it just seems to me like a case of subjectively deciding where to draw the line. I reckon that it is likely, given the number of patents involved, that some claims are frivolous while others have merits on both sides so I am dealing with shades of grey and I am asked to draw the line in it. Trying to be fair in this situation must royally suck.

[Hicks12]

No no you're probably right, of course it makes sense to have it in the US for specific US patents but I thought it was more about the massing of so many so they eventually decided to take a massive one time bout over it? Which in that case should have been done in a more neutral place, when I mean neutral I dont simply mean where they have won or lost I just mean a place that doesnt use the broken US patent system .

Personally think its just got out of hand, it really annoys me seeing it in the press etc that instead of just being a patent here or there its Apple patenting stuff that is blatantly already been done, its not as if they are doing it to get damages they are just trying to stop Samsung selling at all.

And I must be out of date with the sales of phones in the U.S so appreciate that link as you rightly point out it is samsung now but I still standby that US is more Apple loving than normal but then again what can be considered 'normal' now adays, to me i find it crazy to be waiting outside any store for days for a silly bit of tech or a game but it seems to be the norm now, I must be crazy .

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

OTH,the Apple lawyers are using "nationalist" and "economic" sentiment though:

“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”

So basically,they are saying that if the jury does not vote for them,they are knocking down an American institution(in favour of a Korean company) and moreover,people will not invest as much in Silicon Valley as investments are more risky,which is a veiled hint at job creation. Remember there is a recession going on,and this is as touchy in the US as in any other country.

Remember what happened ,with the recent purchase of Brazilian light attack aircraft ?? After much whinging in the US that foreign companies won(even though they had US partners and most of the aircraft were to be built in the US IIRC),they overturned the decision. It has been the same with many large procurements,where US companies have pushed the economic benefits over foreign bids(even though they are probably creating a similar number of jobs in the US too).

[Galant]

Meanwhile, in Korea, both Samsung and Apple are facing bans. For those keeping score on patent infringement, Apple has opened ahead with 2 infringements to Samsung's 1.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...oul-court-says

[shaithis]

OTH,the Apple lawyers are using "nationalist" and "economic" sentiment though:

“If you find for Apple in this case, you will have re-affirmed the American patent system,” said Mr. McElhinny. “People in this valley will continue to invest because they know their investment will be protected.”

The potential fall-out from decisions like these could be great popcorn sellers

We already see China not falling into line with regards to patent infringement......a plethora of dodgy decisions against Samsung could potentially see Korea start flaunting the laws as well, especially if they start to feel that the country is losing money based on dodgy legal decisions made in the US.

Surely we need an international body for patents? Anything else seems to be a bodge.