Samsung vs Apple case moves to jury

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

i love the fact that Apple manufacture outside the US,while Samsung have invested billions in new manufacturing plants in the US.
Oh BT and hyperlink patient was thrown out of a US court.

Darn it!! You just let the cat out of the bag!!

I guess Samsung should offer to buy those designs of Sony, and counter sue Apple.

Dropping a Moose from orbit might be more useful!

[TheAnimus]

Well it only serves to make Apple look less and less like a company worth buying products from.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

[Unique]

how on earth could you not think these two things looked the same?

samsung even had internal emails saying how they should change the design to be more like apples

i don't know why apple kept on using them as a supplier

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

[TooNice]

From a consumer perspective, this won't affect you unless you live/move to the States.

From a "justice" perspective, and before accusations against the US resumes, I will quickly note that this is not the first court Samsung has been found guilty in. Perhaps the most important battle so far (market size wise), but my point is that opinions have been been split (and if I am not mistaken, Apple does have the edge overall in terms of victories so far). Well, one could argue that the court can get it wrong, but if you can't trust the court of several countries, then who will you trust.

Samsung will be appealing (no surprise) so it's not over. That said, Samsung will make a loss in the mean time. What I am wondering with (I am not versed to the US legal system), is that IF Samsung wins on appeal, would Apple need to pay for the opportunity cost?

-------------------------------

Now moving on to a couple of personal observations (don't feel like making a long post - got things to do):

1. I wouldn't have thought that the rubber band effect is such a big deal (and I am pretty sure that I could live without it if the screen stops scrolling). But given that the patent *was* granted for the technique used to accomplish that effect (I have read that it is possible to get the same effect using other methods, but Samsung did not use them), I would say that it the example of a case where the court can only rule in Apple's favour.

2. Regarding similarities.. Well, it's fair to say that there is zero chance of one confusing one phone for the other. Or rather, there is no way for the Samsung to be mistaken for the Apple simply because it is clearly written on the front of the device. But if talking about similarities, the question of how similar is too similar remains. And I would argue that the more familiar one is with the device/technology, the more the differences jump to our eyes. I know almost nothing about cars, though I do know that some cars have two doors while others have four since I'v had to climb in and out of cars with 2 doors before. So yes, I can tell there are two different cars. But beyond that, they do look similar to me and without visible logo from that angle, I genuinely can't identify them, and if it was not in the context it is posted, I would've believed it if someone told me they were different models from the same manufacturer. To the car enthusiasts, it might sound absurd, but there you go.

I'll also note that I find the Nokia and RIM similarly similar to the Samsung and the Apple. I am actually not sure which one came first, but presumably they did not feel strongly enough or find it importantly enough to fight about the "look and feel". Also, I still do not think that there is a *guarantee* that one will win given the subjective nature, but from what I have read, the evidence from Samsung's internal documents was fairly damning. Without it, the argument that form follows functions would have been a lot stronger.

[SixFeet]

2. Regarding similarities.. Well, it's fair to say that there is zero chance of one confusing one phone for the other. Or rather, there is no way for the Samsung to be mistaken for the Apple simply because it is clearly written on the front of the device. But if talking about similarities, the question of how similar is too similar remains. And I would argue that the more familiar one is with the device/technology, the more the differences jump to our eyes. I know almost nothing about cars, though I do know that some cars have two doors while others have four since I'v had to climb in and out of cars with 2 doors before. So yes, I can tell there are two different cars. But beyond that, they do look similar to me and without visible logo from that angle, I genuinely can't identify them, and if it was not in the context it is posted, I would've believed it if someone told me they were different models from the same manufacturer. To the car enthusiasts, it might sound absurd, but there you go.

I find it quite worrying on this front if it is involved the lawsuit. Yes they're similar but certainly not identical, how can you patent a 'style'?

[TooNice]

I do not think it needs to be identical though. If I was to make a close but not identical copy (e.g. add a pocket here, us a zip instead of a button there and flip the pattern 45 degrees) of an existing Louis Vuitton product and call it Luis Vouitton and started selling by the truckloads (enough to be noticed), I do not think that it is unrealistic for me to not expect their lawyers knocking on my door. I still think that the issue is deciding where to draw the line rather than whether there is a line to be drawn. Now I would think that the example I gave is more of a trademark issue than a patent one, but apparently there is such thing as a "Design Patent" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) too. One way or another, it would involve a lawsuit though.

[SixFeet]

I do not think it needs to be identical though. If I was to make a close but not identical copy (e.g. add a pocket here, us a zip instead of a button there and flip the pattern 45 degrees) of an existing Louis Vuitton product and call it Luis Vouitton and started selling by the truckloads (enough to be noticed), I do not think that it is unrealistic for me to not expect their lawyers knocking on my door. I still think that the issue is deciding where to draw the line rather than whether there is a line to be drawn. Now I would think that the example I gave is more of a trademark issue than a patent one, but apparently there is such thing as a "Design Patent" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent) too. One way or another, it would involve a lawsuit though.

Yes I know of design patents of working in an e-business selling cases for electronics. But they only cover complete copies I believe i.e identical. Also your example is not comparable as Samsung never tried to pass it off via naming/brand etc as the same product as in your example. I mean a touch screen phone is a very basic device styling wise as the screen is pretty much the entirety of the phone. Just think it sets a dangerous precedent, where will the line be drawn exactly? You walk in any other electronics store, clothing etc and 90% of items are indistinguishable from other stores.

[watercooled]

It's too infuriating to follow all of this patent trolling nonsense, but lets just hope the appeal takes it to someone with an ounce of common sense + who can't be paid off. Samsung should use the bit about USA production to help them out if it's the senseless patriotism causing problems, and maybe someone will realise the pathetic USPTO needs sorting out to benefit consumers rather than huge corporations, harming consumers in the process. Or maybe everyone else could finally unite to retaliate against Apple?

I know I'm far from the only one to increasingly despise them with the constant patent trolling, amongst other stuff...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not sure if serious:

https://plus.google.com/110619855408...ts/NPTWKSQEHLi

Enrique Gutierrez originally shared this post:
I can't make this stuff up

I'm sitting in a Starbucks doing random whatever over an iced americano. While I waiting for my drink, I watched a guy with his friend, pick up a newspaper; and start to remark on the Samsung Apple verdict.

Guy: "Wait, so what they're saying is, Samsung is the same as Apple?"
Friend: "I know, right? Makes me think twice about how much I paid for my Mac Book"
Guy: "Seriously"

Not 10 minutes later, a husband and wife, same newspaper:

Husband: "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff", after looking up the Samsung tablet on his iPhone.
Wife: "Oh wow," looking at the screen, "... that's a lot cheaper. Think we can return it?"

I put my Samsung QX410 on my table, and started to plug in, when he leans over to me, "Sorry, you don't mind if I ask, how much did you pay for your Samsung laptop?"

"Oh, no worries, it was $700." I replied.

I watched shock overcome his face, like actual shock. He looked at me, blankly, for an awkward amount of time, "Mind if I have a look?" he asked.

So, I obliged, and showed him a few things. He commented on Windows 7, so I opened up my virtual machine of OS/X... By the time the conversation was over, he was ready to kick Cupertino in the nuts, I think.

... Now, the punchline:

I'm writing this post after the FOURTH group of Starbucks patrons have made the connection that Samsung is now the same as Apple. They don't know the details, they don't really care, what they know is Apple is saying that Samsung is the same as Apple ... and with one simple Google Search, you get prices that are basically half for what seems to be the same products -- for nearly everything.

Two of these groups (including the husband/wife) asked me about my Samsung laptop, the second group noticed my Galaxy phone (also by Samsung)... Best billion dollar ad-campaign Samsung ever had.

[SixFeet]

hahaha that's amazing. i really quite like apple products but can't justify paying the markup price for something i can get at a fraction of the price. really don't like their marketing stratergy either, even if it is incredibly sucessful, just feels a little underhand to me.

[Andeh13]

how on earth could you not think these two things looked the same?

samsung even had internal emails saying how they should change the design to be more like apples

i don't know why apple kept on using them as a supplier

Isn't there quite a large difference in the screen size between those two phones?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

This is a mess:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...12082510525390

[watercooled]

So the jury has just gone down a list of tickboxes and filled them in at random it would seem? Like you say, it's a mess...

[aidanjt]

This is a mess:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...12082510525390

None of this surprises me at all, the whole trial was a complete farce.