Scan/XFX DOA product replacement policy

[Saracen]

.....

Yeah it's a bit annoying we've got to go through hassle to get a refund after that period but I'm thinking it is (current retailers 28-30 days) a fair amount of time to get a refund back (maybe I'm the only one ), just as long as they repair the item or replace it quickly after that period

Erm .... after you buy, you get a "reasonable time" to inspect goods to ensure they conform to contract. How long that is will vary, according to circumstances and the nature of the goods.

But the issue is, after delivery, whether you "accept" the goods or not? This is accepting the goods, in contractual terms, NOT about accepting or signing for delivery, which is entirely a different matter.

There's several ways you can "accept" goods, such as by telling the seller you do, or by doing things (like selling them, or customising/altering them) that aren't consistent with not having rejected them, or simply by not rejecting them in a "reasonable period". And that last bit is where the rejecting goods that don't conform to contract in a time period comes in.

And IF goods don't conform to contract and you reject on that basis, you are entitled to a FULL refund, because the supplier is in breach of contract for supplying goods that didn't conform to contract.

After that "reasonable period" expires, or if you've legally accepted the goods in other ways, then we end up falling back on the SoGA in terms of satisfactory quality, fitness for purpose, as described, etc
and that is where the repair, replacement or (possibly) partial refund bit comes in.

But for goods arriving dead, and rejected pretty much immediately because they're dead, and therefore don't conform to contract, you're in full refund territory .... though that period will be fairly brief. Very likely, a few days, and other than in exceptional circumstances, a few weeks (typically, with a month at most) .... but it could be a LOT longer if circumstances dictate that, however long, it's still "reasonable". That's why it's the court that decides ho long reasonable is.

[Richh]

The thing is

Wow, comprehensive post, thanks Saracen!

And if you cancel the contract, the refund will be made "as soon as possible and in any case within a period not exceeding 30 days".

Yes, again this makes it even more difficult to understand the stance Scan are attempting to apply. As you say it appears through the DSR I could insist on a refund, and then I have the option of either re-spending that money at Scan, either on a direct replacement or on another brand, or I could shop elsewhere. Given the possibility that they could lose the sale completely I don't see what's in it for Scan to muck about.

Furthermore, that refund will be a FULL refund, subject only to the "direct cost" of them picking up the goods, IF the contract says that cost is the consumers to bear. But that direct cost relates strictly to the costs incurred in collecting the goods IF you don't return them.

Slight complexity there in that Scan have obviously paid for the card to be repatriated to them under the RMA procedure. But, as you say below, the customer is not responsible for the cost of returning faulty goods so this should not be an issue either way.

This does, of course, all rely on you being a consumer. If you were a business buyer, it's very different. But as a consumer, and as the goods were DOA, :-

Yes thankfully this one was bought with my personal account so in some ways I'm to the good. However, if I had been buying for the business in a time-critical situation, I could have ordered a second card in the knowledge that the cost of the first would be refunded. I don't have the same freedom when buying personally.

Indeed the use that gets made of the three business accounts I control going forward will be thought through carefully on the basis of this experience. The reason I've bought almost exclusively at Scan over the last two or three years is because the supplier we used to deal with began to exhibit serious customer service issues. While my experience with Scan so far has been overwhelmingly positive, it's that last experience that weighs heaviest when it comes to future purchasing decisions.

But even if that was the case, they STILL need to process the refund if you cancel under the DSR, and within that time limit. If they don't, then regardless of the status of the goods, and regardless of whether they've got them back or not, the DSR requires that they MUST process the refund. Period.

Aye, we'll see what happens tomorrow. You would think that, as mentioned above, Scan would know that a customer in this position could use the DSR, with the clear risk that the company would then lose the transaction completely.

Hopefully some common sense will reign and a replacement will be winging its way on a Saturday delivery. You never know, if Scan sent the card straight on to XFX on Wednesday afternoon, they might already be in a position to approve the replacement... (yes, I know, but let's see )

Meanwhile, if anyone @ Scan either has a response that makes sense, or can tell us how many other brands this applies to, I'm sure enquiring minds would like to know.

[Richh]

Riiight, a little update, and a resolution, hopefully.

Have just phoned Scan again, and after again being told that the card had to go back to XFX etc, I stated that I wanted the contract cancelled under the DSR, I was told it would take up to 14 (count 'em!) days to arrange the refund. This again seems totally unacceptable given that the DSR requires the refund to be made "as soon as possible", that your card can be debited in seconds when you make an order, and that it takes no more time to press the "Refund" button on a card machine than it does to press "Sale"

So, asked again what was going on and was, yet again, told that this was XFX policy and there was nothing Scan could do. When I suggested that I'd phoned XFX myself (via their premium rate line) yesterday, and was told that they didn't know anything about this policy and themselves thought it to be well out of order, whomever I was speaking to claimed that I must have spoken to the "wrong person".

I then asked for the name of Scan's account manager at XFX UK so I could phone and ask myself what their policy was, and I was put back on hold.

This time the phone was picked up by Wesley, the returns manager, who agreed that while his colleagues were indeed following policy, it was clearly unacceptable inconvenience in context where I'd had the card less than a day (and where, as I pointed out, the Scan website itself indicates a 7 day DOA period).

Turns out that they can ship an "advanced" replacement, albeit under circumstances where it will be accompanied by an invoice (which won't be charged to my card) which will then be cancelled as soon as XFX confirm the defect on the first card and credit Scan back.

Still seems like a lot of faffing but at least it puts a replacement in hand, and thanks to Wesley for offering it. I also asked whether it'd be possible to arrange a Saturday delivery given the inconvenience it's taken to get to this point, but unfortunately he thought would be unlikely given the cost. Will be nice if that does happen given that, had this option been suggested to me during either of the two calls I made yesterday, I could have had the card in hand this afternoon without any need for a weekend surcharge. Will also be interesting to see what happens to the price on Monday after the VAT cut.

Oh, and I hope Wesley won't mind me saying on here that it turns out XFX is the only supplier with whom Scan operate this particular policy. Says a lot, and while I've been happy with their stuff in the past it'll certainly affect what I buy in future. Needless to say I'll be watching the replacement card like a hawk.

Thanks again to Wesley for injecting some much-needed common sense into the situation, but a thumbs down to Scan (and secondarily to XFX) for not stating up front on the product pages that the DOA policy on this brand is effectively "0 days". Oh, and Scan, 14 days to process a refund under the DSR? If it doesn't even take you 14 minutes to debit money from a card, it shouldn't take you any longer to put it back on either, especially under circumstances where you've already received the (faulty) goods back.

Anyway, let's hope the replacement does what it says on the tin!

[Saracen]

.....

Turns out that they can ship an "advanced" replacement, albeit under circumstances where it will be accompanied by an invoice (which won't be charged to my card) which will then be cancelled as soon as XFX confirm the defect on the first card and credit Scan back.
....

Personally, I'd still be very much less than impressed at that, and would take the DSR route if I found myself in your circumstances.

As it's been explained, the card was DOA. I'd cancel in writing, and expect the refund to be issued in accordance with the DSR. Also, for faulty goods within 6 months of delivery, there is a statutory presumption that any fault was inherent and therefore the goods do not conform to contract, unless the seller (note, seller, not manufacturer) can prove otherwise.

I would not be happy at sitting with an outstanding invoice looming over me, dependent on an opinion from someone not involved in the contract, and XFX aren't a party to the contract.


I have to say, Scan have dropped very seriously in my opinion over the way they've handled this, assuming the account given here is accurate and complete. They've dropped seriously enough that it's got me re-evaluating my intention to get my next order from them, or whether to just to revert to my usual method of buying locally.

[Richh]

I would not be happy at sitting with an outstanding invoice looming over me, dependent on an opinion from someone not involved in the contract, and XFX aren't a party to the contract.

Neither, in any way, shape or form, am I. The news so far is that the replacement card arrived at lunchtime. I installed it immediately and didn't see a screen full of visual corruption. It also got all the way through one whole 3DMark run without crashing the system, so already it seems like a cut above the original. If it's still sat there behaving itself and, well, simply doing what I bought it to do, when I get home, I'll have a little more confidence again.

However, it has, as mentioned previously, been shipped with an invoice describing this new card as as a "warranty replacement" and "advanced replacement".

I'd be very interested to see someone from Scan comment publicly on exactly how this card can be described as a "warranty", let alone advanced replacement given that:

a) I reported the original as dead less than one working day after receiving it
b) I described it as potentially DOA in my original contact with Scan, which led them to recall the card under an RMA.
c) Scan received it back two working days later and confirmed the fault
d) I made clear in the covering letter sent with the card that I had already been in touch with XFX and they had themselves said the card was most likely faulty and recommended replacement
e) The DOA policy for this product is listed as "7 days* on the Scan website
f) As the consumer, my contract is with Scan, and whatever agreement they may have with their supplier is not, in legal terms, anything to do with the consumer.

The idea of this replacement being in any way "advanced" when Scan have already had the original back and confirmed the fault is patently (and most likely legally) ridiculous.

I have to say, Scan have dropped very seriously in my opinion over the way they've handled this, assuming the account given here is accurate and complete. They've dropped seriously enough that it's got me re-evaluating my intention to get my next order from them, or whether to just to revert to my usual method of buying locally.

Yes, it does raise a few interesting questions, and you'd think concern like this would be enough to, at least, prompt a member of staff to clarify the company's position. Aside from anything else, in what way is this "policy" compatible with the 3XS commitment?

[wesleyaldred]

Richh,

Regardless of any timeframe within which you returned the item we have a reasonable amount of time to process a return.

Due to the timeframe involved I agreed to send you a replacement outside of our normal XFX returns policy and attached to this were the procedures I had to follow, all of which were explained to you and all of which were agreed by yourself.

Now that I have issued the replacement i'm afraid it's a little to late too be questioning the procedures you have already agreed to.

I will keep you updated once the final resolution has been actioned.

[Richh]

Hi Wesley, thanks for commenting:

Regardless of any timeframe within which you returned the item we have a reasonable amount of time to process a return.

Of course. However, the definition of "reasonable" in the context of the law, and in the context of Scan's commitment to good customer service, is significant, you would agree?

In this particular circumstance, when a card has been returned as faulty, and when you yourselves have confirmed a fault, I believe it is unreasonable, according to the 3XS commitment, if not the letter of the law, when you have a replacement product in stock, to expect the customer to wait while you return the faulty item to the distributor for a second opinion, especially when that process could result in a delay of "up to 28 days".

Indeed you as a company would generally seem to agree with this, as in the case of every other RMA I've sent you in the past, a replacement has been shipped out by return, almost invariably within hours of you receiving the original item and confirming the fault. It is that previous quality of service, allied with your keen pricing and efficient delivery, that has led to me shopping at Scan consistently, with both business and personal hats on, and which has also led me to recommend you to friends.

Now at the point I ordered this graphics card, there was nothing on the product page to indicate that your service would vary in any way, should anything be wrong (or go wrong). The card is listed on the site as having a "7 day" DOA period. Yet, when it was returned as DOA well within that timeframe, it appears to have been treated effectively as a warranty claim.

Had the card been in my PC for six months, I'd have accepted this. Given that it took less than six seconds after powering up to realise that all was not well, and given that, as mentioned above, I didn't know prior to purchase that XFX DOAs are subject to a different policy to anything else you sell, I still don't think it's at all acceptable, and given the earlier comments on this thread it doesn't seem as though anyone else does either.

You might be able to justify it legally, but does it fit the 3XS commitment?

As for whether it is legal, incidentally, it occurs to me that you could get yourselves in an almighty pickle in a situation where, for example, someone returns a card as DOA, you accept yourselves that the card is faulty, send it on to XFX as per your policy, but then they claim that they can't reproduce the fault.

In that case, the customer's contract is with Scan. Scan have confirmed that the product is faulty and the customer will have your email, and an RMA status page indicating as such. Under those circumstances you are legally bound to replace the product no matter what XFX tell you, are you not?

What would you do if that happened, but due to the delays involved in sending the card to XFX, the customer's rights of cancellation under the DSR have expired? Again, the customer's contract is with Scan, and the moment you confirm that a product is faulty, it doesn't (or shouldn't) matter what on earth the distributor says.

The more you think this through the more downright silly this policy sounds, and that's before you consider any damage to the company's reputation for quick, efficient service it may cause. Again as stated earlier my experience with Scan over the past few years has been almost unremittingly excellent, and that extends to previous RMAs. However on this occasion it sounds like someone's had a bit of a brain fart. Why do you have one policy for everything, and another for one brand? Why do you sell a range that apparently must be treated under different customer service conditions than everything else?

While it's a trifling example, the price on this card has dropped between the delivery of the original unit and the arrival of a functional replacement, as a result of the VAT cut. Now while the price of beer is neither here nor there, if you're expecting customers to sit back and wait while you take up to 28 days to effect a DOA exchange, despite you having a replacement sitting on your shelf, shouldn't you, as a general principle and an example of your commitment to your customers, offer to refund any cuts that occur during such a delay?

Isn't it just easier to operate one DOA policy for every single product you sell?

Now that I have issued the replacement i'm afraid it's a little to late too be questioning the procedures you have already agreed to.

While it may be a moot point as far as this particular transaction is concerned, as this policy still seems to be in force, it seems very much a legitimate issue for discussion, and for prospective purchasers to consider.

I will keep you updated once the final resolution has been actioned.

Thanks, speaking of which, checking the status for the RMA on the returned card, last time I looked at it, I recall there being a tick against "Awaiting Credit/Replacement". The tick has now moved past "Credit Authorisation" and is next to "Completed". Does that mean what it sounds like it means?

[Joey2oo7]

I too have found myself at the mercy of this stupid 'second opinion' policy Scan have in place with XFX. I bought the card from Scan not XFX, Scan say it's faulty, they should replace it there and then. No amount of arguing with Scan would make them budge, i even said bill me for new one and then refund my card when XFX confirm the original card is faulty (which Scan already know !!). I was told i'd be liable for postage ????? It was at this point i gave up and told them to refund my card and i'd buy a replacement card from somewhere else. Of course i have to wait until XFX confirm it's faulty before they'll refund my card ????? So Scan lost out on a 200 pound sale due to completely disregarding DSR and indeed common sense. I won't be in a hurry to buy from them again......

[wesleyaldred]

Hi All,

We are aware the current policy with regards to XFX returns is quite long winded and causing unnecessary delays.

We have been in discussions with XFX and will shortly be introducing a new policy which will be much quicker and handled directly by XFX.

We will be in touch again soon when the new XFX warranty procedure is launched.


Wesley Aldred
Returns Manager

[wesleyaldred]

Joey2007

Can you please PM me your RMA number ?

Wesley

[rabbid]

Hi All,

We are aware the current policy with regards to XFX returns is quite long winded and causing unnecessary delays.

We have been in discussions with XFX and will shortly be introducing a new policy which will be much quicker and handled directly by XFX.

We will be in touch again soon when the new XFX warranty procedure is launched.


Wesley Aldred
Returns Manager

Good to hear!
I hope it has more clarity perhaps than the last procedure.

Touch wood I have no problems with the several XFX products I have bought from you but it does weigh on my mind not to buy XFX with the current/old warranty and DOA procedures that sounded rather irksome from the customers bitten by it.

Anyway well done for acting to improve it!

[GoNz0]

lesson here is not to buy XFX, you would think scan would drop the brand due to XFX's crappy policys

[Chris P]

I myself have been working with XFX and our returns dept. We would not put the time into XFX if we did not feel it to be worth it for our customer's and for us.

XFX are one of our Platinum partners, they have full UK support that some other brands lack. The fact is that XFX is one of our best selling brands. I have factual sales proof to show this and would be part of the reason the problems with XFX cards seem to arise on more occasions than other brands, simply, because more are sold.

As always we have listened closely to the feedback we have been getting especially and also brought this to the right people at XFX that can make changes.

Simply dropping a brand is not the correct decision if you use your "head" and understand XFX have the right price, performance UK support and the stock available to meet the demands of our customers, however SCAN and XFX are fully aware that the service / RMA side needs to be improved. On the up side XFX and SCAN have the internal infrastructure and the right relationship in place to effectively apply the improvements we have in mind hopefully resulting in a better service for the customer.

Best Regards

[not_my_ip]

I have very good experience with RMA processed by scan. And it looks like XFX causing trouble, ut from customer point of view - what do I care about XFX return policy if the card is DOA - my agreement is between me and scan not XFX in this case - warranty maybe yes. I had one similar situation with Nokia mobile phone, bough in local shop, next day I spotted 9 dead pixels on screen - bloke in shop you have to go to authorised nokia repair shop. Bloke there said he can't touch it for 28 days as at that time seller is responsible - phone shop given that answer replaced phone in 5 minutes. I don't know is it some sale regulation or Nokia policy but I think that how customer should be treated. Knowing scan I was surprised why arrangement done by Wesley wasn't in first place when Richh called CS.

Anyway good to heat that finally all is sorted for you mate, shame that you have to go through all this and call few times to get expected services from Wesley - that should be done after first Rich's call.

[GoNz0]

i call BFG uk support, XFX on the other hand take far to long to RMA a product

[Joey2oo7]

Joey2007

Can you please PM me your RMA number ?

Wesley

Don't see a PM option, anyway the RMA number was 195148. Scan received the card back on the 6th Jan and confirmed a fault found on the 7th Jan. Fast forward nearly 2 weeks later (20th Jan) and finally you confirm the card is 'faulty' (even though you already knew this way back on the 7th Jan)and that you're processing my refund. Well you actually say credit rather than refund, i assuming you actually mean a refund to my credit card. No doubt that'll be another fortnight before it appears back on my card....unless of course you do in fact mean a store credit, which i hasten to add will be refused. So to conclude had i not got fed up with Scan's 'BT levels' of customer service i would have been unable to use my new PC for over 2 weeks, wholly unacceptable by anyones standards given the fact the graphics card was faulty from new and should have been replaced as soon as Scan confirmed there was a fault. As stated previously on this thread i bought the card from Scan, not XFX. My contract was with you, not XFX. It was your responsibilty to replace the card, how you then deal with XFX regarding the replacement is of no concern to me.
In the end i bought a new card cheaper elsewhere and Scan lost out on a 200 pound sale.....