Having real issues returning a laptop under DSR to scan

[Bigsy]

Wish I didn't have to bring it up here but I'm having no luck getting any replays to my emails from yourselfs.

Basically I bought a netbook from scan, I got it the yesterday and within seconds of opening the box I could see that it had very limited screen tilt, like barely past 90 degrees. This just isn't comfortable for me so I wanted to send it back, I thought I had 7 days to return it under DSR, I have used this for electronics which were not suitable for my needs in the past.

To be clear, I only opened the laptop box, I have not turned on the laptop, or opened any accessories etc.

So I tried to return it under DSR and this is the response I got from scan:

Thank You for your email, unfortunately as the manufacturers seal has been broken and due to software licensing we would be unable to accept the item for refund.
Current legislation does not permit the return of opened items which contain licensed software.

I don't understand this. There is no windows disk with the netbook, its preloaded on it, I have also not turned on the netbook, I have not agreed to any EULA, I have not activated anything, I couldn't of physcally unsealed any software even if I had wanted to, there isn't any!

I have read DSR from cover to cover this afternoon and the only exemptions are , if :

• goods made to the customer's specification;
• perishable goods (flowers, fresh food);
• CD, DVD, and tapes with software, audio or video if unsealed;
• newspapers and magazines;
• betting, gaming and lotteries

A netbook/laptop is none of these things. Can someone point to the specific legislation that prevents me from returning my unusable laptop under DSR?

Thanks

[Bigsy]

I can only think it was removed as you are embarrassed by what I consider shocking customer service. original unanswered deleted thread was here: forums.hexus.net/scan-care-hexus/203068-having-real-issues-returning-laptop-under-dsr-scan.html

I would like a public answer to the below query please:

Basically I bought a netbook from scan, I got it the yesterday and within seconds of opening the box I could see that it had very limited screen tilt, like barely past 90 degrees. This just isn't comfortable for me so I wanted to send it back, I thought I had 7 days to return it under DSR, I have used this for electronics which were not suitable for my needs in the past.

To be clear, I only opened the laptop box, I have not turned on the laptop, or opened any accessories etc.

So I tried to return it under DSR and this is the response I got from scan:

Thank You for your email, unfortunately as the manufacturers seal has been broken and due to software licensing we would be unable to accept the item for refund.

Current legislation does not permit the return of opened items which contain licensed software.

I don't understand this. There is no windows disk with the netbook, its preloaded on it, I have also not turned on the netbook, I have not agreed to any EULA, I have not activated anything, I couldn't of physcally unseal any software even if I had wanted to.

I have read DSR from cover to cover this afternoon and the only exemptions are , if :

* goods made to the customer's specification;
* perishable goods (flowers, fresh food);
* CD, DVD, and tapes with software, audio or video if unsealed;
* newspapers and magazines;
* betting, gaming and lotteries

A netbook/laptop is none of these things. Can someone point to the specific legislation that prevents me from returning my unusable laptop under DSR?

Thanks

[wesleyaldred]

It was removed as you have posted the same issue in 2 threads.

[wesleyaldred]

I have been emailing you directly via our OLQ system, hence this post will not get updated.

[Chris P]

Bigsy

Your thread hasn't been deleted ?

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...-dsr-scan.html

[Bigsy]

The thread in question has been moved back to the forum list for some odd reason. I have a screen shot with it missing and the above link said I didn't have rights to view it anymore.

Oh and wesleyaldred already said it was removed......odd its back huh?

[Bigsy]

In regards to my email (I've copied below) can I just confirm that below is the official stance by scan before I contact consumer direct?:

Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel
if the order is for:

* audio or video recordings or computer software that the customer
has unsealed.

This laptop contains computer software, Windows 7 Home Premium, which by opening the packaging has been unsealed and the licence activated.

[Disturbedguy]

Ive seen it there pretty much all day, just a little further down the page :/

[Bigsy]

As said by wesleyaldred it was removed, then put back for some reason.

Just to add I've posted this issue on a lot of major uk forums now, the consensus is unanimous that you guys are totally wrong in this case:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=3241756
http://www.avforums.com/forums/gener...ip-me-off.html
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18276621

I understand that many of them won't be experts in this field but the young lady I spoke to at consumer direct also couldn't understand your stance... although I am waiting for them to get back to me tomorrow.

[RabidDeathGnome]

As said by wesleyaldred it was removed, then put back for some reason.

Just to add I've posted this issue on a lot of major uk forums now, the consensus is unanimous that you guys are totally wrong in this case:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=3241756
http://www.avforums.com/forums/gener...ip-me-off.html
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18276621

I understand that many of them won't be experts in this field but the young lady I spoke to at consumer direct also couldn't understand your stance... although I am waiting for them to get back to me tomorrow.

Rubbish. Have you read your own threads? The "consensus" is mostly that its a grey area and nobody is really sure.

Those quoting the "not fit for purpose" are COMPLETELY wrong. The machine isn't faulty or broken, you simply do not want it anymore so it would be a DSR ruling.

However, this bundled software is different to the free software given with things such as DVD burners/monitors/etc that other cretins have tried to mention on the respective forums. The software isn't "bundled" or free. It's part of the original purchase.

The grey area is separating the hardware from the software licence. I am not completely set on either stance so I am not sure if you or scan are correct. However, bitching about them on other forums and twisting your own facts will not help your case. Trying to force the retailers hand is not the right way to go about things.

You would/will be MUCH better off asking them if they would accept a partial refund based on the refund of the hardware minus the software. The software licence law is ambiguous and unless you want to take them to the small claims court using your own cash, on a case that I could see going either way, I'd settle for that.

[Bigsy]

I cannot see a single person in any of those threads that support Scan's stance. Even if you ignore the law for a second (which I think has been twisted too far in this case) it's still monumentally bad customer service.

And you should read the threads again yourself because I have twisted nothing, just laid out the facts.

I don't want a partial refund, I have posted this on other forums, and will continue to do so, so that as many people as possible do not fall into this trap.

[EzyRyder]

Have you read the DSR?

I have and can see where Scan are coming from...

From DSR http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/13/made
Exceptions to the right to cancel13.—(1) Unless the parties have agreed otherwise, the consumer will not have the right to cancel the contract by giving notice of cancellation pursuant to regulation 10 in respect of contracts—

(d)for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software if they are unsealed by the consumer;

If that's the case then you might just have to keep the laptop unless the Windows licence included doesn't activate until you switch on the computer, which I personally don't know. And then if that's the case the only product you have unsealed would be the computer and not the software within it.

I don't know how to prove that either unfortunately.

[Mossy]

Threads Merged.

[Jasp]

At the end of the day what you need to do is contact trading standards and see were they stand on the issue, if the response is favourable get them to forward it to you via email then to scan.

[Chris P]

Bigsy

We believe our stance is correct, I understand you have posted in various threads and from reading through some of the responses they are genuinely attempting to be helpful but most of the information such as " not fit for purpose " is incorrect and is a misinterpretation of this particular issue.

The Information EzyRyder has posted ( who has no association with SCAN ) seems to confirm our stance by our Returns department.

We are more than happy to liaise with Trading standards and for you to speak to them directly and by all means if they highlight an area where they disagree with the options we have given you or they feel that the way in which we have dealt with your query has been unfair in some way then we will do everything we can to co-operate with them to resolve this issue as they advise.

Best Regards

[Bigsy]

Have you read the DSR?

I have and can see where Scan are coming from...

From DSR http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/13/made
Exceptions to the right to cancel13.—(1) Unless the parties have agreed otherwise, the consumer will not have the right to cancel the contract by giving notice of cancellation pursuant to regulation 10 in respect of contracts—

(d)for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software if they are unsealed by the consumer;

If that's the case then you might just have to keep the laptop unless the Windows licence included doesn't activate until you switch on the computer, which I personally don't know. And then if that's the case the only product you have unsealed would be the computer and not the software within it.

I don't know how to prove that either unfortunately.

I do already know the section scan are trying to bend to fit this situation.

The laptop has not been turned on thus the windows license has not been activated. In addition no physical software is present the only thing being unsealed here is a laptop. I should have a right to return a LAPTOP under DSR, software no, laptop yes.

And yes I am in contact with consumer direct to confirm where I stand before I proceed.