As much as it wasn't my intention for this thread to turn into a debate about the moral rights and wrongs of parking tickets but I think its starting to emerge that people like SHare propagate the myth in the Government's eyes that they can inflict any impositions on us without meeting any resistance, yet people like me are the thorns in their sides, the very tame but early steps of a revolution; they've all got to start somewhere.
I've appealled the PCN and I'll let you know how I get on.
Good luck and do let us know how you get on.Originally Posted by BEANFro Elite
You don't like modern democracy?
If you can call it that, but this hardly the place to discuss that; what I said was in jest at the attitude towards motorists with regards to parking.
I think you'll find that people like myself just don't like when people knowingly break the rules then whine about it when they are caught. Viva la revolution!
Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to complain if I got a ticket for a dubious reason, but that's not the case here, you parked illegally, you knew you parked illegally, what's more you expected to get a ticket for parking illegally.
So the parking attendant made a mistake with your registration number, not a dodgy sign, not poor road markings, a human error, a misspelt reg number having to write it down in the street.
So your going to appeal against it, the very people you say are wasting our money, are going to have to spend money dealing with your appeal.
It's going to cost us money because you parked illegally, and you admit you did, but still because you don't want to pay, your going to make the rest of us pay.
I pay tax as well matey, I'd just rather spend the money on my family than some council, I'm not whining, either however, I'd be more willing to pay up if the way I'd parked had some how impeded the flow of traffic, like parked in the zig-zag lines on approach to a zebra crossing for example.
I haven't heard anything yet though, saying that.
Thinking about it if they got your reg wrong, the bill will go to the owner of the vehicle of the reg they put down, you'll maybe never hear anything.
So the correct thing to do is, write to them saying they have your reg wrong, giving them your correct reg and name and address, that's what I'd do
I just won my parking appeal with PATAS. Story is here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=41295&st=0
They screwed up the procedure, they cant legally enforce the penalty charge.
Lets be honest here people, if you were caught doing something wrong but had the option of paying a penalty or not paying, most of us would choose not to.
I'm sure he learnt his lesson. I'm all for the challenge the payment.
I was sitting in my car on double yellows and a parking guy was next to me, I asked if I was ok to wait for 5 mins he said no but if I drive around the block and come back he will be gone by then.
That made me smile.
□ΞVΞ□
I went down a cafe on an Easter Saturday, parked in a bay on a red route and assumed a bay was ok to park in (especially on a Saturday when it's not even in a busy road but in a slip road outside some shops - how wrong I was!). I appealed mine anyway, on onerous grounds that a)I was picking up something which was too big to carry (well, I wasnt but meh..) and b)That I was parked in a different borough (which I could have been as it was dead on the boundary..).
They actually refused my appeal but failed to address my second point in their letter, so I wrote to them again. This time they put the fine up to double. I wrote again and they again increased the fine (was over £100 at this point!). I wrote to them again, stating I would not pay any fine until they addressed my points in the first letter and I expected to pay the initial amount as it was under appeal since then.
Surprisingly, they then wrote back and apologised for not addressing the matter properly, and dropped the fine altogether. Which was nice (I was quite prepared to pay the initial amount, was just a tad annoyed at the time so thought I'd chance my arm.. then they kept increasing the fine heavy handedly and outside of their own rules ref: appeals). It's always worth appealling, even if you have only a small chance. It's fair enough if you're causing a nuisance, but some of the red routes are ridiculuous. I'm sure there's a study that says otherwise in some council department though.
Anyway.. I wouldn't take any initial rejection letter as the final step. There are some clear paths for appealling and fines are frozen until the appeal is over.
This happened to me. I wrote back saying the reg was wrong on the ticket there for im not paying.
They sent me a letter back saying they wont be following up on it. Pretty much simple as that.
That's weird, because I can see deleted posts and there aren't any in this thread. I also can't see any signs of deletions in the logs.
It would have to be a lot more than just saying ignore it for there to be any reason to delete it.
U haven't read the whole thread (got distracted by Gonzo's missing post) and I'm a bit pushed for time right now, but my initial reaction is :-
- if you "do the crime", be prepared to "do the time" .... ion this case, pay the fine but
- just as we are expected t oobey rules about where to park, there are rules the authorities must obey to penalise us.
As far as I know, the post earlier mentioning pepipoo was dead right. Minor details being wrong on a ticket (like debatable colours) might be fair enough, but the material details must be correct or the ticket is invalid. And if it's invalid, it needn't be paid.
We have a duty to obey LEGAL parking restrictions, but not illegal ones. The authorities have a duty to get their restrictions right, according to law, or they AREN'T restrictions, but just markings in a 'pretty' colour yellow on a road. They also have a duty to get the penalty system right including car details and it doesn't get much more fundamental than Reg number.
Is the penalty owed? Morally, for parking where he shouldn't, uses and I haven't see BeanFro dispute that in what I've read. But is he obliged to pay it? As I understand it, no.
We had a thread a few months ago about whether some road markings were a legal restricted area. One of the stats I pointed out then was that some councils have a HUGE rate of appeals against them to the independent adjudicator upheld, I don't remember the precise figure, but IIRC, Westminster lost something like 70% of appeals, and it was a good way towards that stunning figure for national statistics.
I don't park where I shouldn't, so wouldn't have got the ticket in the first place but if I had, I'd only feel obliged to pay it if it was properly and legally issued.
But I wouldn't "ignore" it. Dispute it by all means, appeal it maybe, but not just ignore.
With some councils, that'll work. They seem to take their duty to check disputes seriously. Some, however, don't seem to.
The "appeal" figures I referred to earlier were where a driver had disputed the ticket and the council had rejected the dispute, insisting it be paid. Only when it went to an external, independent adjudicator was the ticket thrown out. That such a high percentage of tickets that had been disputed were upheld by the council and thrown out by an independent adjudicator was, to me, shocking, as it implied the council weren't taking disputes seriously. That makes me wonder how many people disputed it, were told it was upheld and paid oit when they shouldn't have.
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