F1 2014 (And fantasy F1)

[Biscuit]

Yesterday they said they were fitting the cars with amplification horns

I don't see the dominance of Mercedes as a problem. We still get close races at the front between Lewis and Nico which makes very entertaining viewing. The number 2 team still seems to be Redbull which is a Renault team, so the Merc engine are definitely not unbeatable. There is a lot going on in the battle for 3-10th place and its hard to predict who will pull ahead there, i think it will be Alonso and Ricciardo battling for it.
McLaren are just no-where to be seen... again

[Stuen4y]

I am participating in several more F1 2014 threads in different countries and the majority of the people are more than disappointed. It does not make the Mercedes-Benz achievement lesser or anything but no one likes to watch a "sport" with no actual thrill for the first place. Lewis is more or less crowned a champion unless something very unexpected happens (like Armageddon, alien invasion, etc.). The feeling was the same during the 2011 season of Vettel dominance. Even the Vettel fans (like me) thought is is plain boring.

[kalniel]

I am participating in several more F1 2014 threads in different countries and the majority of the people are more than disappointed. It does not make the Mercedes-Benz achievement lesser or anything but no one likes to watch a "sport" with no actual thrill for the first place.

Are they watching the same races as us then? Bahrain?

Lewis is more or less crowned a champion unless something very unexpected happens (like Armageddon, alien invasion, etc.). The feeling was the same during the 2011 season of Vettel dominance. Even the Vettel fans (like me) thought is is plain boring.

It's completely different - Mercedes have shown that they don't have a number one driver and consequently there's fighting throughout the field. Granted, Barcelona might be a snooze fest and prove me wrong, but I think this season has been one of the most exciting in recent years so far.

[Stuen4y]

Are they watching the same races as us then? Bahrain?

It was fine but nothing like the past. Maybe the bar was set too high in the early 90s and everyone just wants pure racing, not tire saving, fuel saving, engine saving, everything saving combined with multi 21 strategies and so on. It is not even close to the 2012 wild start of the season with 7 different winners from 7 races.

It's completely different - Mercedes have shown that they don't have a number one driver and consequently there's fighting throughout the field. Granted, Barcelona might be a snooze fest and prove me wrong, but I think this season has been one of the most exciting in recent years so far.

They do not have a number one driver which is admirable and have proven to be a very dangerous tactic in the pasts. However, on my opinion, even though both are great drivers, Lewis is the better one and is winning 100% of the battles so far. I might prove wrong but I am feeling he might have been favoured when the car was developed as well so it suits his style more. In general, this year's F1 is very interesting from a technical perspective with all the marvels the engineers have managed to create in that short period of time but the racing is definitely lacking. I am also quite surprised by the reliability everyone shows in the past two races. Expected to have frequent engine blows and so on until mid season but no.

[kalniel]

It was fine but nothing like the past. Maybe the bar was set too high in the early 90s and everyone just wants pure racing, not tire saving, fuel saving, engine saving, everything saving combined with multi 21 strategies and so on.

Did you see the races in the 80s and 90s? There was even more saving of stuff because the cars were so fragile. People ran out of fuel, parts, all sorts of things.

It is not even close to the 2012 wild start of the season with 7 different winners from 7 races.

But is the racing more exciting now? I think so.

They do not have a number one driver which is admirable and have proven to be a very dangerous tactic in the pasts. However, on my opinion, even though both are great drivers, Lewis is the better one and is winning 100% of the battles so far.

But they have been battles. Ultimately I'm not such a fan of any one driver that I care who wins all that much - better that there's an interesting race, and that's what we've been getting.

I might prove wrong but I am feeling he might have been favoured when the car was developed as well so it suits his style more.

I don't think they'll have developed to Hamilton at Rosberg's expense, but he's always been better at getting a bit more out of a car when it's not quite perfect.

In general, this year's F1 is very interesting from a technical perspective with all the marvels the engineers have managed to create in that short period of time but the racing is definitely lacking.

Again I don't agree - I think the racing has been amazing.

[Stuen4y]

You are probably the first person I stumble upon that actually likes the season apart from the commentators on the F1 shows and the Mercedes drivers. Different people, different opinions. Peace!

Did you see the races in the 80s and 90s? There was even more saving of stuff because the cars were so fragile. People ran out of fuel, parts, all sorts of things.

That added to the drama. I loved DNF that happened 1 lap before the end of the race but maybe that's just me.

But is the racing more exciting now? I think so.

Niki Lauda once (not that long ago) said in an interview that all the modern F1 drivers are a lot inferior to the gladiators in the past and I agree with that. I think he even used quite a lot stronger words but won't quite. Sadly I cannot find the interview.

But they have been battles. Ultimately I'm not such a fan of any one driver that I care who wins all that much - better that there's an interesting race, and that's what we've been getting.

Battles but no overtakes relative to the past. Even with boosts, DRS and very long straights on the modern tracks, overtakes are lacking in my opinion. It may be due to the tracks. It may be due to the fact that everyone wants to minimise risk in order to save money. I do not know but F1 being the pinnacle of motor sport is not as glamorous as it was in the past. Even compared to the Schumacher domination in early 2000s.
P.S. Please tell me you did not enjoy today's race and the so called race between Hamilton and Rosberg.

[kalniel]

That added to the drama. I loved DNF that happened 1 lap before the end of the race but maybe that's just me.

Isn't that somewhat artificial then? You had boring people like Prost just saving the car - same thing that you're accusing people of doing today.

Battles but no overtakes relative to the past.

Sure that's not just rose-tinted specs? Hard to say as they didn't show all of the earlier races, but seems to be quite a lot of overtaking these days. But I find a good battle much better than an easy overtake (and I hate DRS for that reason )

Even with boosts, DRS and very long straights on the modern tracks, overtakes are lacking in my opinion. It may be due to the tracks. It may be due to the fact that everyone wants to minimise risk in order to save money.

Mostly it's aero - the cars can't follow through the corners as closely. Secondly the cars are just that much closer in performance - you don't have turbo cars going up against non-turbo etc. But then some people complain if there is a differential in performance (ie Mercedes).

I do not know but F1 being the pinnacle of motor sport is not as glamorous as it was in the past. Even compared to the Schumacher domination in early 2000s.

Are you seriously suggesting that was better than the racing now? I think you're mad

P.S. Please tell me you did not enjoy today's race and the so called race between Hamilton and Rosberg.

Today's race was brilliant. Loads of battles through the field - a battle on lap times for the lead, but great Raik/Alonso battle, the two Force Indias, Vettle storming through from the back, Grosean, the interplay between cars strong on the corners vs those fast down the straights. Great stuff. I don't know how you can think it's worse than we've had in the boring refuelling/traction control era.

edit: I should add, I'm a McLaren fan, so I'm not enjoying the modern races through any sense of self-congratulation

[Stuen4y]

Mostly it's aero - the cars can't follow through the corners as closely. Secondly the cars are just that much closer in performance - you don't have turbo cars going up against non-turbo etc. But then some people complain if there is a differential in performance (ie Mercedes).

I know but it is still a pain to watch someone be obviously faster 0.5-1s per lap and still not being able to make the overtake. I do not count overtakes in which one of the cars has 10 laps newer tires because the driver has very little to do in those overtakes. I give today's drivers that the cars have very high torque but with all the electronics they can get around this even without TC. Which btw was one of the lowers points in the sport on my opinion. Before that - turbos, manual gears, danger of death, and thrill for the spectators. I truly respect any driver that gets into an F1 car and their difficulties with high Gs, endurance, difficulties of car understanding due to their complexity. Still its mainly car competition and drivers are like jockeys...

[Biscuit]

Im absolutely behind Kal in this one mate, a lot of my mates who are into motorsport also feel the same. I think you are looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. Sure there was some thrilling races in the past and things were a lot closer to the edge of a drivers actual ability but all of that car management has brought 2 races right to the wire in the season so far, this one and Bahrain. Even the less interesting races this season have been far more entertaining than the end of last season as far as im concerned.

Do you not remember the season where McLaren won every race except one where Prost broke down? That was an incredible season where Prost and Senna were gunning for each other. You can start to sense the tension building between Hamilton and Rosberg, its unlikely to get to that level but, who knows.

People so nostalgic about F1 i sometimes think they are almost deliberately not enjoying it to try and prove a point.

[Stuen4y]

Do you not remember the season where McLaren won every race except one where Prost broke down? That was an incredible season where Prost and Senna were gunning for each other. You can start to sense the tension building between Hamilton and Rosberg, its unlikely to get to that level but, who knows.

The problem is we don't really know if those guys are even close to the capabilities the great drivers of the past had. We know Hamilton is really really fast in a single lap, Rosberg is very consistent and fast driver but we have no way to compare them to the drivers that have written the history of F1. I would enjoy a true fight for the first place between the Mercedes pilots but I do not foresee it coming, Hamilton is better with a margin big enough to eliminate the fight.

[Biscuit]

The problem is we don't really know if those guys are even close to the capabilities the great drivers of the past had. We know Hamilton is really really fast in a single lap, Rosberg is very consistent and fast driver but we have no way to compare them to the drivers that have written the history of F1. I would enjoy a true fight for the first place between the Mercedes pilots but I do not foresee it coming, Hamilton is better with a margin big enough to eliminate the fight.

Why is that a problem? Why does it matter if they are close to the capabilities of the drivers of the past?

The problem is that people try and make these comparisons when they are impossible. The reality is that they are both excellent drivers and if you take the combination of racing, strategy and engineering that you see happening on the screen, its really quite enjoyable.

I think you should grab a pint and sit back, let it happen instead of destining it to week on week dominance for Hamilton. Rosberg proved today that he is perfectly capable of achieving the victory. Hamilton's mind games will only go so far. Lap on lap race pace, Rosberg slightly has the edge (as much as i hate to admit it).

[Stuen4y]

I think you should grab a pint and sit back, let it happen instead of destining it to week on week dominance for Hamilton. Rosberg proved today that he is perfectly capable of achieving the victory. Hamilton's mind games will only go so far. Lap on lap race pace, Rosberg slightly has the edge (as much as i hate to admit it).

I have a feeling as a general tendency for world conspiracy they are choosing alternative strategies for Hamilton and Rosberg so it is quite hard to judge their pace in the race. In a single lap it's obvious Lewis is slightly faster but judging by his previous driving style, he is harsher on the tyres so this might be the reason for both alternative strategies and a feeling that Rosberg is faster. Nevertheless, its the wins/points that count and I cannot deny Lewis is doing a better job this season despite the misfortune in Melbourne.
P.S. It's really nice to have an educated argument with people that are interested in something! I do enjoy this, guys.

[kalniel]

I know but it is still a pain to watch someone be obviously faster 0.5-1s per lap and still not being able to make the overtake.

But that's part of the craft. You know the obvious answer to those who just want overtakes (hint, go further West ) Planning the tactics so that you not only find your way faster than someone, but do so in a manner able to overtake them, is part of F1.

I do not count overtakes in which one of the cars has 10 laps newer tires because the driver has very little to do in those overtakes.

The driver has a role in making sure he arrives at that point in the race with the better tyres - they all have to cover the same distance and are not forced to run the same strategy. Covering other strategies is part of it - Massa really lost out today because Red Bull dummied them into pitting too early. It's fascinating and gives drivers yet another thing to try and manage.

I give today's drivers that the cars have very high torque but with all the electronics they can get around this even without TC.

Given the black lines being laid down at today's race I wouldn't say they're completely getting around it! But they are very skilled drivers.

Which btw was one of the lowers points in the sport on my opinion. Before that - turbos, manual gears, danger of death, and thrill for the spectators. I truly respect any driver that gets into an F1 car and their difficulties with high Gs, endurance, difficulties of car understanding due to their complexity. Still its mainly car competition and drivers are like jockeys...

*shrugs* Yes, F1 is about the cars as much as the drivers, but that's why you have two people using the same car - as Lewis and Nico showed again today - and there were still battles between different makes of cars as well as each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. There are other series which have more similar, or even identical cars if you like - I'm a big fan of BTCC which has really great driver racing, but also love F1.

[kalniel]

Another fantastic race - and at Monaco where you supposedly can't overtake as well! Lewis is getting quite antsy - looks like we're in for another Senna/Prost pairing.

I had a shocker of a fantasy team this round - two of my drivers retired

[Andy3536]

Some come on, did Rosberg do it deliberatly?


The pundits on sky were divided, but personally i think Rosberg was sawing away at the wheel before the braking zone and long before any wheels locked up. I'm not convinced it was a lock up and run wide.

[kalniel]

He was sawing away, but he was also approaching 7km/h faster so the sawing might have been trying to scrub off speed/realisation already that he was too fast for the corner.

I think Rosberg does have some inner steel, and it would be the perfect response to Hamilton breaking team orders in the last race (using an engine map they'd agreed not to), but also it would have been mega-risky to deliberately induce an over-speed at that point - so easy to damage the car, and a gamble to assume yellows would come out. On balance, I think initially it's not deliberate - once he's cocked up though I'm sure he didn't think 'oh I must make sure not to cause any yellows' - he could have waited before reversing for instance.

Do you think Hamilton really had something in his eye towards the end or was he trying to justify coming second?

Kudos to Bianci.