What would make you drive an EV?

[Moby-Dick]

Looks like I'm going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the World of EV's. Just placed an order on a 30kWh Nissan Leaf Teckna. The test drive impressed me - it was really quite a nice place to be. That said, one of the driving factors for going EV is that Milton Keynes is pretty well set up for it. It'll mean that the Mrs will actually get a parking space that doesn't cost £20 a day.

Its only on a 2 year deal so by the time it comes to change , 2/300 mile EV's should be more common place.

[directhex]

Its only on a 2 year deal so by the time it comes to change , 2/300 mile EV's should be more common place.

Chevy claim to be shipping their 60kWh Bolt EV in some states in late 2016, so yeah, should be common enough in Europe in a couple of years' time.

Don't discount it for longer drives, too - remember, most of the motorway network is well equipped with 0-cost high speed chargers

[snedger]

1000+ mile range. Implementation of EV charging at my flat's parking spaces not costing too much.

[DanceswithUnix]

Chevy claim to be shipping their 60kWh Bolt EV in some states in late 2016, so yeah, should be common enough in Europe in a couple of years' time.

Don't discount it for longer drives, too - remember, most of the motorway network is well equipped with 0-cost high speed chargers

How good is that network though? My worry would be the visit to the inlaws, I would need to charge the car somewhere in the Llanelli area. Not that I can actually afford the Tesla that would present me with such a problem, but I hope that by the time the technology becomes affordable to the likes of me that won't be an issue. Ideally I would want to charge at a restaurant or hotel where I would want to be anyway, just the idea of going out of my way even for the 40 mins that a Tesla fast charger takes is pretty off-putting to someone who hasn't tried it. The nearest Tesla charger seems to be in Bristol, so it would be more than 40 mins charging.

[Moby-Dick]

Bear in mind the tesla network isn't compatible with the regular rapid charger ones. In that instance you've got Ecotricity chargers at J47 & 49 of the M4 Interestingly enough , that part of the world seems to be a bit thin on the ground for public charging. Have a look at zapmap.com

[DanceswithUnix]

Interestingly enough , that part of the world seems to be a bit thin on the ground for public charging.

That's what I thought, but not being an expert seemed worth asking.

My daily commute is only a 10 minute drive unless the weather is nice in which case it is a 30 minute walk. I seem the ideal case for an EV for everyday use, apart from the hassle of home charging as our driveway is far from ideal for running a cable to the car.

[DanceswithUnix]

Now this looks a lot of fun: http://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2016/0...we-did-at-ces/

[Saracen]

Bear in mind the tesla network isn't compatible with the regular rapid charger ones. ....

Really? Seriously?

I've never looked seriously at electric cars because, for now they suit neither my needs, nor what I'd pay for one.

But .... I imagine some alternative energy source to petrol/diesel is, sooner or later, inevitable and I'm going to have to move over. Unless I croak first.

At that point, few things are going to put me off move that competing charging networks that are incompatible with each other.

For me, the single, sole, critical benefit of petrol/diesel is the ability to pull in to ANY ONE of thousands of fuel stations, spend a few minutes filling up, and get back on my way, secure in the knowledge that they ALL carry compatible fuel.

I can't think of anything more likely to delay or deter switching than the industry being so stupid as to get into a VHS/Betamax mess over charging compatibility.

[Moby-Dick]

Its interesting , but the Tesla superchargers are AC and a different power rating (120kW) vs the 55kW rapid chargers that the non tesla network uses. The Tesla superchargers are also free ( for tesla owners )

Most of the the other cars use the same unit ( which has all of the relevent sockets on board ) - the next thing that'll bake your cookie is that lack of unified access / pricing.

Still look at the UK pre-national grid , we had different voltages / plugs etc.

for the reasons we've got the leaf, it will do us just fine - MK has a great charging network and my wife rarely ventures more than 25/30 miles from there. For everything else , we've still got the Elgrand!

[directhex]

Really? Seriously?

I've never looked seriously at electric cars because, for now they suit neither my needs, nor what I'd pay for one.

But .... I imagine some alternative energy source to petrol/diesel is, sooner or later, inevitable and I'm going to have to move over. Unless I croak first.

At that point, few things are going to put me off move that competing charging networks that are incompatible with each other.

For me, the single, sole, critical benefit of petrol/diesel is the ability to pull in to ANY ONE of thousands of fuel stations, spend a few minutes filling up, and get back on my way, secure in the knowledge that they ALL carry compatible fuel.

I can't think of anything more likely to delay or deter switching than the industry being so stupid as to get into a VHS/Betamax mess over charging compatibility.

Tesla have a proprietary Tesla-only network, charging 120kWh/h (about 360 miles of range per hour of charge). They have 31 sites in the UK. (e.g. at M40 J8A). Tesla's chargers are free-of-charge to Tesla users.

There are 3 other major systems in use for journey charging. CCS is the "state of the art" DC connector, charging at 50kWh/h (about 150 miles of range per hour of charge). CCS is used on European-designed cars like the BMW i3. 417 sites in the UK. Costs vary - the chargers at motorway/A-road sites operated by Ecotricity are gratis. CHAdeMO is the Japanese equivalent to CCS, found on Asian & American designed cars like the Nissan Leaf or Mitsubishi PHEV. 586 locations in the UK. Also often operated by Ecotricity at major service stations. The third is a bit of an oddity - it is a 3-phase Mennekes plug (as supported by most European-designed cars for low-speed charging), but running a MUCH higher amperage, for 43kWh/h. Basically only supported at that speed by the Renault Zoe, but the connector will run at 11 or 22kWh/h for other European-designed cars. 478 sites, almost always free of charge (as almost all Ecotricity sites use a CHAdeMO/3-phase combined charge unit made by Renault-Nissan).

For low-speed charging (e.g. leaving your car in a work car park, or multi-storey), you'll either find a regular British plug socket (use the travel charge cable that came with your car), or a Mennekes socket (buy a Mennekes-to-Mennekes cable if you drive a European-designed car, Mennekes-to-J1772 for Asian/American)

FWIW, Tesla sell a CHAdeMO-to-Tesla adapter, so you can use Ecotricity etc sites - but they charge about a grand for the adapter.

[Gerrard]

1000+ mile range.

You struggle to get that with diesel powered cars! I guess you can argue that for the sake of ten minutes to refill, you could. However, if I was doing more than 300 miles in a go, a half hour break would probably be a good idea!

Its interesting , but the Tesla superchargers are AC and a different power rating (120kW) vs the 55kW rapid chargers that the non tesla network uses.

Not quite; it's actually DC. The Tesla website is rather poorly written on that detail! Their wiki link is better at explaining it: -

http://www.teslamotors.wiki/wiki/Supercharger

Carrying a 120kW charger with you would fill the boot of the car!

I can see an intermittent problem in the near future as EV's take off but the charging network not expanding as fast. There might be more sites around, but I have only noticed a couple of charging stations per site. If they are both in use, it'll be an extra half hour wait before you can start. And knowing this country, when that starts to happen regularly, it'll be a few years before the government catches up!

[DanceswithUnix]

You struggle to get that with diesel powered cars! I guess you can argue that for the sake of ten minutes to refill, you could. However, if I was doing more than 300 miles in a go, a half hour break would probably be a good idea!

Pah, I'm still sure nuclear power would be possible given modern reactor technology. Fill up every 10 years. Mind you, someone would still accidentally leave it 11 years between reactor refills and run out

[Moby-Dick]

Ah so it is, I must have misread the legend on one of the maps. Its still not compatible with the Rapid chargers the rest of the EV world uses. The Supercharger station have 6 bays AFAIK, though the Ecotricity ones only seem to have a pair , which does look like it can lead to a few wait times.

As far as the future goes, if you can home charge for a decent range ( 2/300 miles ) then the need for using on road rapid chargers drops a little, so perhaps the network doesn't need to be expanded as much as you might think? With the current shorter range cars, It seems the rule of thumb is to not pass a rapid charger if you have less than 30% battery left.

[Saracen]

Thanks for the clarification, guys. I guess I understand a bit better.

Still not impressed, though, especially if there's four charging systems.

I guess it comes down to usage. A lot of my usage is local, either knocking around town, or maybe sub-50 miles each way. That shouldn't be too challenging. Some is intermediate, like visiting relatives, where I might want 150-200 miles range, non-stop. That's trickier.

But then there's work. I sometimes find myself required to visit someone quite a way away, like Home Counties to Edinburgh. There's often two of us in the car, and swapping drivers is an option, but the priority is getting to the client site ASAP, get the job done, and get home. Diverting miles trying to find rare charging points is not an option, and unless we can charge while parked on the client's premises, nor is much time stopped for "breaks" en-route. We might stop for 5 - 15 mins for a coffee .... or might not.

As often as not, currently, we grab a coffee (or water, coke, orange juice, and or muffin, sandwich, whatever) "to go" while filling up with petrol or diesel, and then eat/drink on the go.

That scenario isn't common, but I need to be able to handle it when it happens. If "charging" presents major headaches, problems, challenges, delays or inconveniences, then it's a non-starter.

The time will no doubt come, but for now, both cars and the infrastructure are FAR to immature, even assuming we get past the up-front cost issue. And four charging systems sure isn't going to help.

[snedger]

You struggle to get that with diesel powered cars! I guess you can argue that for the sake of ten minutes to refill, you could. However, if I was doing more than 300 miles in a go, a half hour break would probably be a good idea!

My requirement for 1000+ range is not to drive whilst I am dangerously tired, it's so I can embark on an extended journey e.g. holiday, or long weekend/overnight return trip and not have to think about "where do I top up?".
I'd already considered future issues with range longer than fossil fuel - when EVs do have an ultra range there will be issues with idiots who only stop when they need to refuel - but you could easily have an aboard computer sending telemetry to the DVLA to give you points on your licence if you exceed a safe journey time threshold (whatever that might be deemed to be).

[Gerrard]

Range extenders are a good idea, but are a bit limited at the moment on their EV-only range. They offer the benefits of driving an EV for those common shorter journeys, but can fall back onto a normal engine for the seldom longer journeys. However, I don't know the details of the current ranges of them, with or without running the engine.