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Thread: Learner drivers on the motorway?

  1. #17
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    All data from the final test is disposed of apart from the record that it was taken and passed (or failed)
    Yeah right!

    Apart from that you'd have to be living in a fantasy world. A really weird, nightmarish, dystopian fantasy world! Someone being anxious of some constant observation doesn't make them a bad person or driver.

    I'm also curious about why you think that people being able to remain courteous for a two week window (which is a pretty arbitrary timeframe, how many hours per day I wonder?) means they won't become yet another 'perfect' idiot when the cameras are removed? I fail to see how it would improve the standard of driving at all TBH - I think most people are capable of being decent drivers anyway, they often just get complacent or assume they're doing everything perfectly while being a complete idiot to everyone else on the roads.
    Last edited by watercooled; 13-04-2018 at 11:34 PM.

  2. #18
    Admin Saracen's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    Yeah right!

    Apart from that you'd have to be living in a fantasy world. A really weird, nightmarish, dystopian fantasy world! Someone being anxious of some constant observation doesn't make them a bad person or driver.

    .....
    Well, there is an argument that says the most effective way to convince most people to not do something is a two-part process :-

    part 1 - a better than decent chance of getting caught.

    part 2 - a punishment of a type that REALLY deters risk-taking.

    Talking of dysopian fantasy worlds, I remember reading a sci-fi book (Heinlein, I'm pretty sure) about some people with a 'car' (flying, of course) in which some phtsics prodigy installed a space-time "twister" that allowed instantaneous travel between any two points in the continuum. So, the first three dimensions are obvious, but it turns out the next three shift them among millions of parallel universes where things are the same, but ... not. The further along the axis, the more 'not' things are.

    Bear with me. I'm getting there.

    So, one day they've travelled to an apparently idyllic alternate, where everybody seems really nice, exquisitely polite, courteous and considerate fo the point of nausea, etc. Until they come across a "levelling". A bloke is staked out in the road, has an old cart and horse run over his legs several times, then is made to wait exactly 28 minutes (or whatever) before medical help is summoned.

    Turns out that earlier, he'd driven his cart drunk, knocked over an innocent pedestrian, who'd been left in the road, in agony, with multiple leg injuries for 28 minutes before help was summoned.

    Turns out their idea of justice was to be careful what you do unto others, lest it be done unto you. And, of course, will excessive surveillance, you WILL be caught. So both parts 1 and 2 are fulfilled.

    It also turned out rape was exceptionally rare, and murderers never offended twice.
    Noli nothis permittere te terere.


  3. #19
    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    I acknowledge that argument, don't agree with it though. People don't get on well with being treated like cattle for the most part. Then comes the whole debate behind mass surveillance e.g. who watches the watchers, people demonstrate increased stress and anxiety whilst under observation, etc.

    But like I say, it's one thing performing well whilst being watched, it's another choosing to be an aggressive moron once 'passed'. There's a difference between a well-meaning and careful but inexperienced driver, and an experienced one who chooses to act like an idiot. An extended, increased pressure test would most likely unfairly impact the nervous ones whilst boosting the egos of the confident ones who drive like they own the road.

    I for one definitely act differently under observation (I assume many do) and picked up a couple of minors for silly things I hadn't done even during lessons.

    Edit: WRT crime rates vs surveillance - London happens to be one of the most heavily surveilled cities in the world. Doesn't correlate with lower rates of violent crime does it? It's actually rising from what I've seen.
    Last edited by watercooled; 15-04-2018 at 11:19 AM.

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