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Thread: Learner drivers on the motorway?

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    Hooning about Hoonigan's Avatar
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    Learner drivers on the motorway?

    If you do any kind of driving on the motorway, whether it's commuting or just getting about, you'll more than likely have noticed a complete and utter lack of lane discipline or awareness from a lot of drivers.

    Middle-lane-hoggers
    Undertakers
    BMW drivers
    Not indicating
    People braking
    Tailgating

    Whatever it is, there's far too many issues, and far too many crashes.

    Starting in June, learners will be allowed to take lessons on the motorway, providing they're with a qualified instructor and the car has dual controls.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/l...ways-from-2018

    Do you think this is a good thing or not?

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    Senior Member Jonj1611's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Accident waiting to happen
    Jon

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    omg no! Lessons ought to be mandatory, but a second stage only AFTER you have passed your test. Frankly there ought to be more testing of people who have passed their test too. Every 5 years IMO.

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    Senior Member Jonj1611's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Pass plas introduced motorway driving after someone passed their test. The problem was it was only available up to a year after passing and it was quite pricey and you never got that reflected back on your car insurance.
    Jon

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    Senior Member Xlucine's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    It won't fix those issues (people can learn the same concepts on dual carriageways, and fail to), but some confident learners under instruction on the motorways (with the instructor nagging them to indicate et al) will probably improve the average driving quality on the motorways.

    Long overdue IMO, my first motorway experience was a bit daunting and if I was under instruction at the time it would have been safer

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    omg no! Lessons ought to be mandatory, but a second stage only AFTER you have passed your test. Frankly there ought to be more testing of people who have passed their test too. Every 5 years IMO.
    I agree about retakes

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Probably better being on there with someone with experience (and dual controls) rather than forcing a potentially nervous or no-confidence newly passed driver try and negotiate it on their own.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    My first motorway rides were great, probably because I was alone and didn't have someone sat over my shoulder watching me like a hawk. I could just have at it and find my own way. ISTR I was even filtering a bit.

    There should be no difference between motorway driving and dual carriageways, really.
    I don't see a problem with learner drivers on the motorway, as they should be sufficiently competent to avoid causing a hazard before any instructor takes them out there...

    The problem will be with other drivers, who see an L-Plate and automatically start misbehaving around them. Doesn't matter how good a driver you are, the instant you display an L you get treated like cack. Most driving instructors get this even when they're alone in the car and going between lessons. People don't even look beyond that red L, they just abuse and act out.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    My biggest issue with the driving licence at the moment is the huge leeway they give you.

    14 minor faults within a 40-minute window does not make you a good driver, yet you will be handed a driving licence and considered exactly the same, to an insurer or anyone else on the road, as someone who passed with a perfect score.

    We need to be much stricter and drop that to around 5.

    Of course, the amount of minor errors on your pass certificate doesn't perfectly represent you as a driver, but it does go some way toward.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Definitely a good thing IMO, although they can't make it compulsory as not everywhere is near a motorway.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    My driving test here didn't leave the parking lot. It explains a lot.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    It varies. For me going on the motorway for the first time after passing was like a right of passage, built some confidence, but then my dad was a driving instructor so I did get quite a lot of tips. I do agree that a L plate can cause some people to behave unusually to you when you're in a car.

    I don't know if motorway instruction is a good or bad thing. I tend to agree the test is a little easy to pass, but then the people enforcing the test probably know this and would hopefully upgrade a minor fault to a major if they felt someone wasn't ready for the road. They can have decades of experience of instruction and testing, some of them.

    I do think we should be much more careful on the roads and treat every driver with kid gloves. You never know when someone might just be having a bad day and is behind a wheel.
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Am am 100% for it. However my definition of a learner driver is somewhat different to the governments. First, drivers are required to learn and pass under current rules.
    Once passed, they must pass a pass plus within 6 months and are banned from motorway driving without a pass plus instructor present.

    Once they have passed the pass plus, they have full road access but they have 6 months to take their final test. This test is performed by fitting a dashcam with cameras facing both ways (on the driver and the road), GPS and an accelerometer in their car over a 2 week period. Software goes over the telemetry to check their adherence to speed limits, lane discipline and following the highway code. Anything anomalous is flagged up and reviewed by a human. The human confirms whether it is a minor error or a major error. Minor mistakes are allowed provided they are below a threshold.

    Should the above be passed, congratulations, you are qualified to operate a 1.5 tonne killing machine with reasonable safety unlike 99% of the other individuals on the road. Your requalification will be in 5 years and is the same as the final test. All data from the final test is disposed of apart from the record that it was taken and passed (or failed)

    Major mistakes and too many minor mistakes require a pass plus style re test to be taken within the next 3 months, unless the driving reveals offences suitable for referral to the police. After taking the pass plus style test, the driver must complete the final test successfully again. A second failure simply means they have to start from scratch again. Anyone that can't keep their bad habits in check for a couple of weeks shouldn't be driving.

    Phase 2. Roll out the final test to all drivers to be performed every 5 years. Watch the standard of driving go through the roof and congestion completely disappear. Partly because of the good standard of driving but mostly because of the huge drop in driver numbers.

    The beauty of phase 2? Using driving offences alone, you'll probably get 10% of drivers banned through points accumulation or outright bans. Before anyone defends the potentially banned people - if you can't keep your driving in check for a couple of weeks per year when you know you're being watched, you should not be on the road.

    Anyone banned must pass the final test again to prove they are capable of driving, except they are treated like learners on the first final test.

    Once the outright dangerous road users are all banned and must start learning from scratch, then the 5 yearly test can be used to weed out the major mistakes or excessive minor mistakes.
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    I assume the poster above is joking...? Or has a massive chip on their shoulder, while also being an absolutely perfect driver?

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    I assume the poster above is joking...? Or has a massive chip on their shoulder, while also being an absolutely perfect driver?
    I'm curious who he proposes is paying for this incredibly expensive system. Certainly not car tax or fuel duty as there won't be much of those once everyone loses their licence.

    I think motorway lessons are a good idea. No reason not to, and it might help with the shocking lane discipline on the average motorway.

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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    omg no! Lessons ought to be mandatory, but a second stage only AFTER you have passed your test. Frankly there ought to be more testing of people who have passed their test too. Every 5 years IMO.
    That.
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    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: Learner drivers on the motorway?

    Quote Originally Posted by virtuo View Post
    Probably better being on there with someone with experience (and dual controls) rather than forcing a potentially nervous or no-confidence newly passed driver try and negotiate it on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ttaskmaster View Post
    My first motorway rides were great, probably because I was alone and didn't have someone sat over my shoulder watching me like a hawk. I could just have at it and find my own way. ISTR I was even filtering a bit.

    There should be no difference between motorway driving and dual carriageways, really.
    I don't see a problem with learner drivers on the motorway, as they should be sufficiently competent to avoid causing a hazard before any instructor takes them out there...

    The problem will be with other drivers, who see an L-Plate and automatically start misbehaving around them. Doesn't matter how good a driver you are, the instant you display an L you get treated like cack. Most driving instructors get this even when they're alone in the car and going between lessons. People don't even look beyond that red L, they just abuse and act out.
    I agree with you both TBH. I fail to see how a learner driver accompanied by an experienced driving instructor in a dual-control vehicle is in any way worse than a nervous driver with possibly no more experience than said person who happens to possess a full driving license - possessing that card doesn't suddenly make you any more of a competent driver than you were before passing the test.

    I also agree that, in theory, many of the same skills can be picked up on dual carriageways but IMO they're not identical and at least psychologically different to a newcomer.

    WRT the L plates - also agreed. The same could be said about P plates - the way my instructor explained it to me was basically, in theory they're a great idea as they alert other drivers to a newcomer and allow them more time for manoeuvres etc, however the reality is the born-'perfect' drivers on the road are more likely to just bully anyone with a P plate, in full Dunning–Kruger mode.

    So yes, I believe it's a very good idea as I can't think of any logical reason why it's not.

    After all, we already have to put up with all of the following, and hopefully, more people receiving training will help to reduce it going forward. It seems almost bizarre that people aren't allowed any training on some of the fastest roads in the country!
    Middle-lane-hoggers
    Undertakers
    BMW drivers
    Not indicating
    People braking
    Tailgating

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