Autocar's article about EV charging

[Zak33]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...p-evs-charging

Ultra-rapid public chargers should help quell fears of range anxiety and lack of convenience for prospective EV buyers.
BP Chargemaster has already begun the roll-out of 400 ultra-fast 150kW chargers planned by next year. These are capable of delivering a 100-mile range top-up in 10 minutes.
National Grid also proposes the creation of ultra-rapid charger clusters (150kW-350kW) at motorway service areas.
According to its 2019 FES, National Grid has already identified 54 sites that, it says, would put 99% of EV drivers within 50 miles of a cluster at any time.

Lets change route to a charge station and drive back toy our route and use all the charge we went to get.

Being serious - 54 sites to charge at super fast rates is a good idea, but how long will the queue's be? If it's 10 minutes to charge for 100 miles, plus lets say 60 seconds to plug in and unplug/drive off and with no need to go to a kiosk to pay as its on your account, its still longer than filling a car with 12 gallons of fuel, pay at pump... to then drive 600 miles.

this still needs a lot of work, doesn't it?

[Zak33]

with reference to overloading the grid

In the short to medium term, it is predicted that overloading the network in peak periods can be avoided by smart charging. Smart chargers fall under the control of network operators and each charger can be told when to begin charging to spread the load on the networks into low-peak times. Successful trials over the past few years have established that consumers have no concerns with the time of day their EV gets charged, particularly because it usually happens overnight.

The time shift can be overridden for urgent use and chargers potentially controlled by the consumer via an app.

now I know what people are like... look at Christmas food shopping or the fuel blockades... when they want something, they're more important that everyone else. Always. Look at Priority Boarding on Ryan Air... every single person is in that queue!

Every parent working until the last moment to then drive to collect kids from school... every business person needing to travel.... everyone needing to drive to the supermarket at lunchtime to buy sandwichs.. everyone wanting to leave on time on Friday... everyone... everyone will want to be at the front

[[GSV]Trig]

Yeah it does need a lot of work, but if you drive distances where you are needing more than the max range on the car, you are IME at least, more likely to stop off at a service station, plug in, go have a piss and grab some food, by which point your cars charged enough to get you where you are going.

Look at the V3 Tesla superchargers, they'll charge at a rate of 1000miles an hour, a bit better than the ones mentioned here, but, still a way off.

Maybe time to revisit my old comments about the batteries being an industry-standard fit, you drive up, park the car, go grab your sandwich, while this is happening an automated system drops the battery out, and replaces it with a fully charged battery, in a few minutes, bang, full range back again, while your old battery goes to the bottom of the pile and is charged up, by the time it gets to the top of the pile its fully charged and ready for someone else.

[[GSV]Trig]

with reference to overloading the grid



now I know what people are like... look at Christmas food shopping or the fuel blockades... when they want something, they're more important that everyone else. Always. Look at Priority Boarding on Ryan Air... every single person is in that queue!

Every parent working until the last moment to then drive to collect kids from school... every business person needing to travel.... everyone needing to drive to the supermarket at lunchtime to buy sandwichs.. everyone wanting to leave on time on Friday... everyone... everyone will want to be at the front

COuld they not perhaps have something on the car that talks to the charge station..

Oi chap, I've got 200 miles to go and only 20 miles on the clock, I'll be there in 5 minutes, reserve a space, this then books the charger and disables it in some way for other users, you arrive to your pre-booked space and plug it, knows its your car, ANPR or something NFC/RFID or whatever and works.

[Ttaskmaster]

The largest amount of work still needed, IMO, is making EVs that are nice to have.
Right now, they're mostly just bland tools for people who have to drive, but seem to lack anything in terms of design aesthetic. The day they do an EV with an interior similar to a Vector W8 or even an HGV cab, I'll start being interested.

Maybe time to revisit my old comments about the batteries being an industry-standard fit, you drive up, park the car, go grab your sandwich, while this is happening an automated system drops the battery out, and replaces it with a fully charged battery, in a few minutes, bang, full range back again, while your old battery goes to the bottom of the pile and is charged up, by the time it gets to the top of the pile its fully charged and ready for someone else.

They already tried that and people didn't like it. Something about getting an older battery used by someone else that might not be as good as the one you'd be giving in return...

[Zak33]

Yeah it does need a lot of work, but if you drive distances where you are needing more than the max range on the car, you are IME at least, more likely to stop off at a service station, plug in, go have a piss and grab some food, by which point your cars charged enough to get you where you are going.

Look at the V3 Tesla superchargers, they'll charge at a rate of 1000miles an hour, a bit better than the ones mentioned here, but, still a way off.

Maybe time to revisit my old comments about the batteries being an industry-standard fit, you drive up, park the car, go grab your sandwich, while this is happening an automated system drops the battery out, and replaces it with a fully charged battery, in a few minutes, bang, full range back again, while your old battery goes to the bottom of the pile and is charged up, by the time it gets to the top of the pile its fully charged and ready for someone else.

a brave government will insist not just on default batteries but also chargers, voltages, times etc

but they're all going thier own ways.. again. so that boat has sailed

and 1000 m/hour chargers... thats a long way off. And how many times can you do it? Superchargers for Tesla are limited to once per day at the moment to save battery life.

[Saracen999]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...p-evs-charging



Lets change route to a charge station and drive back toy our route and use all the charge we went to get.

Being serious - 54 sites to charge at super fast rates is a good idea, but how long will the queue's be? If it's 10 minutes to charge for 100 miles, plus lets say 60 seconds to plug in and unplug/drive off and with no need to go to a kiosk to pay as its on your account, its still longer than filling a car with 12 gallons of fuel, pay at pump... to then drive 600 miles.

this still needs a lot of work, doesn't it?

It's a start .... like a molehill is a start on a mountain.

If that plan is to put most within 50 miles of a cluster, are they seriously suggesting a 100m round-trip detour off my route is viable? If so, I want some of what they're smoking, it must be really good stuff. And how long will that detour take?

I still think battery technology needs a generational shift or two before it gets even close to being useful for me, and I want a good 300+ mile range per charge, without getting in silly-expensive cars for it to be practical (for me).

[TeePee]

The largest amount of work still needed, IMO, is making EVs that are nice to have.
Right now, they're mostly just bland tools for people who have to drive, but seem to lack anything in terms of design aesthetic. The day they do an EV with an interior similar to a Vector W8 or even an HGV cab, I'll start being interested.


They already tried that and people didn't like it. Something about getting an older battery used by someone else that might not be as good as the one you'd be giving in return...

This may be true for the Tesla Tupperware interior, but the Porsche and BMW electric interiors are very nice indeed. I think the E-Tron might well fit your interior desires the best!

[Zak33]

This may be true for the Tesla Tupperware interior, but the Porsche and BMW electric interiors are very nice indeed. I think the E-Tron might well fit your interior desires the best!

if we're serious about saving energy and weight, thereby extending range and lower environmental costs..... we need simple design..not complexity.

Far to many resources go into poncy interiors that have no right to be pulled along for 150,000 miles of the cars life. The enrgy to pull all this along is phenomenal

If they simply banned heated seats fro example across the globe.. the saving would be enormous over a decade. less current drain on every car and less weight in the vehicle, Less cables, less heating elements, and less switches/thermostats

[badass]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...p-evs-charging



Lets change route to a charge station and drive back toy our route and use all the charge we went to get.

Being serious - 54 sites to charge at super fast rates is a good idea, but how long will the queue's be? If it's 10 minutes to charge for 100 miles, plus lets say 60 seconds to plug in and unplug/drive off and with no need to go to a kiosk to pay as its on your account, its still longer than filling a car with 12 gallons of fuel, pay at pump... to then drive 600 miles.

this still needs a lot of work, doesn't it?

One thing everyone in the thread so far here has forgotten. You refuel your EV overnight, at home. No one needs to detour to these points unless they are travelling a very ong way. In which case chances are there's not much of a detour. Unless you park on the street. In which case, perhaps better public transport is the answer rather than replacing cars using engines with cars using motors.

However I agree with the sentiment of the post. Vastly more needs to be done. Carefully.

I quite liked the idea of batteries being modular enough and extra space accessible enough that you could buy an EV with say 20-30 Kwh capacity but space for another 60 ish KWH unused. When you plan a long journey, hire the 60 KWh battery for when its needed and return when done. That way the cars are cheaper and the impact of making them is hugely reduced.

[Xlucine]

54 fast charge clusters is every other motorway service station high-power electrified (they probably all have slow chargers by now)

if we're serious about saving energy and weight, thereby extending range and lower environmental costs..... we need simple design..not complexity.

Far to many resources go into poncy interiors that have no right to be pulled along for 150,000 miles of the cars life. The enrgy to pull all this along is phenomenal

If they simply banned heated seats fro example across the globe.. the saving would be enormous over a decade. less current drain on every car and less weight in the vehicle, Less cables, less heating elements, and less switches/thermostats

Heated seats really aren't that heavy, or that power hungry - the difference won't be measurable with statistical significance over a tankful given typical variance in fuel consumption. They're also saving energy on EVs, the alternative (electrically heating air) is less efficient

[TeePee]

if we're serious about saving energy and weight, thereby extending range and lower environmental costs..... we need simple design..not complexity.

Far to many resources go into poncy interiors that have no right to be pulled along for 150,000 miles of the cars life. The enrgy to pull all this along is phenomenal

If they simply banned heated seats fro example across the globe.. the saving would be enormous over a decade. less current drain on every car and less weight in the vehicle, Less cables, less heating elements, and less switches/thermostats

Probably the best thing to do for the environment it to put more emphasis on motorcycles and scooters. Motorcycle lanes in cities would go a long way toward increasing safety and encouraging responsible single/two person transportation. No need to drag an entire car around with you.

[Ttaskmaster]

This may be true for the Tesla Tupperware interior, but the Porsche and BMW electric interiors are very nice indeed. I think the E-Tron might well fit your interior desires the best!

E-Tron and Porsche are just a load of touchscreens, as is the i3. Horrid. Exactly what I don't want.
BMW i8 is ever so slightly more interesting, but only because it looks like a Gutamaya ship interior from Elite: Dangerous... still pretty hideous, though.

[Zak33]

Heated seats really aren't that heavy, or that power hungry - the difference won't be measurable with statistical significance over a tankful given typical variance in fuel consumption. They're also saving energy on EVs, the alternative (electrically heating air) is less efficient

the lowest I have seen (on typical car 12 volt system though that charges at closer to 14v from the alternator) was 1.4a and the highest well over 4amps - thats between 17w and 50w, per seat.

[DanceswithUnix]

, its still longer than filling a car with 12 gallons of fuel, pay at pump... to then drive 600 miles.

Like many I have a petrol car, and typically get 350 miles out of that fill up.

But I also have a family. The idea of stopping for just 10 minutes at a service station is an impossible dream, even rushing we seem to take half an hour.

the lowest I have seen (on typical car 12 volt system though that charges at closer to 14v from the alternator) was 1.4a and the highest well over 4amps - thats between 17w and 50w, per seat.

Only for the first couple of minutes of driving, then it is warm so you don't need it. Heck, you'll be dissing heated steering wheels next

[DanceswithUnix]

Maybe time to revisit my old comments about the batteries being an industry-standard fit, you drive up, park the car, go grab your sandwich, while this is happening an automated system drops the battery out, and replaces it with a fully charged battery, in a few minutes, bang, full range back again, while your old battery goes to the bottom of the pile and is charged up, by the time it gets to the top of the pile its fully charged and ready for someone else.

The thing is the removed batteries still need to be recharged, at peak I can imagine them running out of charged units. Now you aren't waiting for a charge to your car, you are waiting for the last guy's battery to finish charging before it can be swapped in.

When you plan a long journey, hire the 60 KWh battery for when its needed and return when done. That way the cars are cheaper and the impact of making them is hugely reduced.

Now an auxiliary battery is interesting. That could more easily be a standard size, reduces everyday weight when doing that 10 mile commute. You still get the problem of plumbing it into the coolant lines though.