All good things come to an end

[Saracen999]

I agree it's refreshing to see mostly reasoned opinion and debate on serious issues. It's easy to get very emotional on such matters, but that usually just ends in wandering off-topic and personal attacks unfortunately.

I entirely agree, and with Apex. I've had some really, really good arguments here over many years .... and I mean "arguments", perhaps more accurately highly reasoned debates. As soon as it starts to turn to mudslinging and name-calling .... forget it. The name-calling, and reduction of debate to point-scoring is a major part of why I quit the admin team. I'd had enough of trying to sort it. So, now, I can just ignore threads, and people (well, person) that are forever at it.

There is even one member here (that I won't name) that always seemed to take the opposite stance to me, but with careful and rational arguments. And you know what .... you soon find out that most issues aren't clear-cut, and that just because you firmly believe you're right doesn't mean you are. Actually engage with someone else's rational arguments, and at the least you're likely to learn something, and that might even be that you've changed your opinion.

And the sort-of funny bit? After a couple of years of really making me work, this particular member actually admitted (privately) that on a number of those threads he actually agreed with me and was playing devil's advocate because he enjoyed a good debate too.

And the moment it starts getting personal, you lose all that.

So yeah, it's great to see these threads re-emerge, including on subjects I know little about and am reading avidly, flip-flopping a bit, and learning fast.

[Ttaskmaster]

I mean just me, personally, I don't see the attraction of a vehicle which is usually based on a car but is higher, heavier, slower, less aerodynamic, less fuel efficient, often worse ride, worse handling/driving experience, higher centre of gravity, etc. I mean I'm sure some will argue in favour of extra storage space (for the once they use it, if it's considerably different at all) and higher driving position, something I don't see the point of on UK roads.

Depends on the SUV.
Wife has a CR-V 2nd Gen. It has about the same storage space as the Audi A4 Estate I told her to get. It's also higher to the point where it hates corners, has the same horsepower as both my car and my bike but is heavier than both of them together, costs a bomb to fuel compared to my diesel even when just doing short trips...

However, you climb up into in rather than sitting down to it, which she likes. It's built for the Japanese market, so fits small people like her very well. It works very well for loading kids, dogs, shopping, cargo and whatever else, whereas even an estate car would need you bent over uncomfortably. The raised driving position is more preferable for her. It's an automatic because she is a lazy, pansy little wuss who can't cope with manual, even though she learned to drive in one. And other such reasons....
I get why she likes it and it does suit her needs, far more than most SUVs... which is why I chose that one for her. I still hate the darn thing and only tolerated it because it's a Honda and will withstand a lot of her abuse, long as she remembers to get it serviced and maintained promptly.

I wouldn't ever recommend anyone buys one, though.

[Zak33]

4x4's are an issue but they're also essential in numerous rural roles, & I need a 4x4 and you cant lock the diff on it as it's also used daily on roads. It costs my family more to run so I use an old Skoda to commute,but it's still a diesel and being an old version, it does'n't have the emmission controls newer cars do. I cant afford a new car though.

What needs to happen is SUV's need to become less cool/uncool... then no one will want them, unless they need them.