Drive the M4?

[Allen]

I've lost count of the times you've trolled motoring threads

Once or twice I have lost it, yes. A long time ago though, I thought. If you think that I have been trolling this thread or the other in GD (before you sticked your oar in and blatantly accused me of being a liar when you have no proof) let me know and I'll try and post what I actually meant. I have already said that sometimes I post in a "strong" way, but that's because I believe strongly about this subject. That's the way I am, and I won't apologise for it, nor do I think that it's trolling.

and now you can't seem to take any back

But this isn't a slagging off match, which is what it appears you were turning it into. If you know me so well, you'll know I'll argue till I'm blue in the face about dangerous driving and speeding on Britain's roads today, but start calling me names and I'll react how I think is appropriate.

:edit: Hmm, it seems as though your post disappeared...

[DR]

How DARE you accuse me of making things up!! You don't even bloody know me, so how do you know what I see and what I don't?


So just because you're a mod you think you can get away with unsulting members of the forum now? Calling me a liar and saying you wouldn't be surprised if people attempted to drive into my house is not only YOU being counter productive but I would assume not the kind of image Hexus wants to give.

You don't know how ****ing livid I am now.

Allen - please please please, step away from the forums. There is no need for you to react like this.

I don't know you or your circumstances, but I know how I drive - I have 0 points and yes I do speed at times, but I am also very careful driving - probably due to a crash I had.

However, if people want to speed - let them, you are not law enforcement and neither is it your roll to discuss and convert people.

I have noticed, you do seem to have a bug bear with people who speed - I personally hate people smoking around me, and people who drink drive - however, now is not the place for that.

[Moby-Dick]

my post dissapeared because I decided not to further the conversation. I suggest you do the same.

[Allen]

Allen - please please please, step away from the forums. There is no need for you to react like this.

I don't know you or your circumstances, but I know how I drive - I have 0 points and yes I do speed at times, but I am also very careful driving - probably due to a crash I had.

However, if people want to speed - let them, you are not law enforcement and neither is it your roll to discuss and convert people.

I have noticed, you do seem to have a bug bear with people who speed - I personally hate people smoking around me, and people who drink drive - however, now is not the place for that.

I won't go on as I respect your requests, but I will say only a few things and then I'll leave it be, I promise.

Firstly, it may have seemed like an over-reaction, but I was insulted by one of your forum administrators which I thought was totally uncalled for (due to his position and the fact he had no proof of his accusations). That was the only reason I reacted the way I did.

Secondly, if it's not my roll to discuss how I feel people shouldn't speed, logic says that surely others are not allowed to discuss how they have the "right" to speed? What's the point of forums if you can't discuss things (even if subjects like this do sometimes get a little heated)?

If it comes across that I am trying to preach or "convert" anyone from being speeders to being more safe behind the wheel, that is certainly not how I intended it to come across and I apologise for that.

[Zak33]

/wanders in

we all done now ?

[Shad]

"If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen"

[dureth]

I would like to add my views on speeding.

70MPH on a motorway is too slow. When 67% (figure gained from news release of M4 camera saying that many speed at 80+ already) already break the limit, and I assume many more feel they could go faster but dont out of respect for the law, then the limit needs to be raised. It is no longer an appropriate speed. In my own experience 90MPH tends to be the upper limit on current motorways before breaking distances and steering control become slightly hazy (mainly down to my vehicle, naked 600cc bike isnt designed for high speed).

This is based on my own experience, I'm a motorcyclist and as such tend to have better reactions than most car drivers. This isn't due to any superiority but is down to less distractions (when on a bike all you can concentrate on is your driving) and the slight fear factor (you fear for your own safety ever so slightly on a bike, it really keeps you alert).

I've had several near misses usually due to me being very alert and avoiding the accident by pre-planning and thinking ahead. The majority of near misses tend to be caused by people not paying attention. It seems that many people either arn't paying attention or are acting rashly due to being impatient. I religeously do not speed in 30 limits, they are there for a reason. 40 limits I see as my own judgement, open roads are fair game, but built up or busy areas are not. national limits should be whatever the hell I think is suitable at the time.

Sorry if my view has become a little unfocused but I'm writing a stream of concious here and not re-writing it into an essay just for a forum post.

[5lab]

one thing that i think a few of you are missing here is the fact that it *isnt* safe to go at >80 on our motorways. about a year ago, some tw*t testdriving a beemer 3 series (not a big car by all accounts) lost control doing 110*ish* on a dual carrageway near here, went straight into the central reservation. if he'd been doing 80, the car would have bounced back into his lane, probably bashed a few cars about and skidded to a halt. due to the excess speed he went straight thru the reservation and ploughed head-on into 3 other cars with closing speeds of approaching 200mph. you shouldn't be surprised to find that no-one survived. now bare in mind that an old-ish 3 series probably weighs what - a tonne? now consider that a lot of the fast lane 95mph club are driving x5s and the like (may be stereotyping but i'd say thats not far off the mark) - that means they are driving getting on for twice the weight of the 3 series at nearly a similar speed... suvs are known for rolling if swearved, so its not hard to imagine a x5 doing 100 in the fast lane, jamming on the brakes and swearving to avoid someone who pulled out doing 80 to overtake a lorry, rolling, blasting thru the central res and destroying a bundle of cars... speed limits are there for a reason - even if its not obvious to you to start with

[schmunk]

^ Amen

[Rythmic]

Hmmm - It's not speed that kills, it's inappropriate speed.

Most of the back lanes that lead to my house are national speed limit - do I drive at that speed? Of course not - it's narrow and has 90 degree bends in it.

Believe it not, I've had two knocks this year, where I've been stationary - how could a speed camera sort that out?

The three series driver above - what on earth was he doing 110 along a dual carriage way that he probably didn't know, in a car he definitely didn't know? Thats pretty stupid - are 70mph limits on a motorway gonna help? IMHO no - the most scary things that happen are due to people who are dangerous at any speed.

Passing J12 M4 - I've seen many, many cars either leaving the "on" sliproad at ~20mph or actually stopped at the end. Having had to break fairly hard as a minibus moving at 20 tried to join a packed M4 moving at ~50/60/70. Tell me how these speed cameras are going to stop that and I'm all for it.

Most of all though I hate the way the goverments justify their actions. The police report two seperate types of offence "speeding" and "inappropriate speed". The goverment combines these two figures to justify speed cameras, even though the second offence will not be caught by them.

Thats really the point I'm trying to make here - sorry, bit of a rant - theres no evidence that speed cameras actually drop the rate of accidents, cause they can't catch stupid/blind/drunk/high drivers - only speeding ones. I feel much happier in a lane next to someone doing 100 than next to any of those.

[5lab]

stopping speeding might help those sliproad incidents actually because there will be less of a difference on speeds of traffic sometimes.. anyways my point was that at 90mph a x5 or similar will plow straight thru a central reservation if it hits it at enough of an angle.. which is definately the last tihng you want...

[Lead_Head]

Hmmm - It's not speed that kills, it's inappropriate speed.

Most of the back lanes that lead to my house are national speed limit - do I drive at that speed? Of course not - it's narrow and has 90 degree bends in it.

Believe it not, I've had two knocks this year, where I've been stationary - how could a speed camera sort that out?

The three series driver above - what on earth was he doing 110 along a dual carriage way that he probably didn't know, in a car he definitely didn't know? Thats pretty stupid - are 70mph limits on a motorway gonna help? IMHO no - the most scary things that happen are due to people who are dangerous at any speed.

Passing J12 M4 - I've seen many, many cars either leaving the "on" sliproad at ~20mph or actually stopped at the end. Having had to break fairly hard as a minibus moving at 20 tried to join a packed M4 moving at ~50/60/70. Tell me how these speed cameras are going to stop that and I'm all for it.

Most of all though I hate the way the goverments justify their actions. The police report two seperate types of offence "speeding" and "inappropriate speed". The goverment combines these two figures to justify speed cameras, even though the second offence will not be caught by them.

Thats really the point I'm trying to make here - sorry, bit of a rant - theres no evidence that speed cameras actually drop the rate of accidents, cause they can't catch stupid/blind/drunk/high drivers - only speeding ones. I feel much happier in a lane next to someone doing 100 than next to any of those.

Hit the nail right on the head. Superb post.

[schmunk]

Passing J12 M4 - I've seen many, many cars either leaving the "on" sliproad at ~20mph or actually stopped at the end. Having had to break fairly hard as a minibus moving at 20 tried to join a packed M4 moving at ~50/60/70. Tell me how these speed cameras are going to stop that and I'm all for it.

This is nothing to do with the use of speed cameras - it's a completely separate issue. However, this could easily be policed by additional cameras, if appropriate legislation was introduced.

Importantly though, this and similar points introduced passim should not be used as evidence against the value of speed cameras.

[5lab]

This is nothing to do with the use of speed cameras - it's a completely separate issue. However, this could easily be policed by additional cameras, if appropriate legislation was introduced.

sorry, but what is there to police? if you cant join the motorway from the sliproad at 50 or 60 cos its too busy, then what option do you have? bombing along the hard sholder at any speed is dangerous in something as wide as a minibus..

[zhenboy]

sorry, but what is there to police? if you cant join the motorway from the sliproad at 50 or 60 cos its too busy, then what option do you have? bombing along the hard sholder at any speed is dangerous in something as wide as a minibus..

Good thinking...
If they are going 50, 60 mph....you really CAN NOT join the motorway...

[5lab]

yeh so sitting at the end of the sliproad is pretty much your only option..