1 years worth of lessons before test

[dangel]

Exactly. banning you from driving on a motorway is not going to tech you how to drive on a motorway is it. Thats a silly billy idea

I think it's more about getting people confident at speed _first_ on slightly less intimidating roads - and for that a 70mph dual carriageway will suffice rather nicely. Around here it makes little difference in reality as the A14 is 3 lanes in parts anyway and there's only one motorway in the region (M11) which is two lanes.. There's nothing to stop you taking your advanced driving test or even just taking a couple of lessons on a motorway post passing your test.

Motorways require a lot more awareness than other roads - the reality is people travelling at far higher speeds (the M1 near leicester is three figures in the outside lane regularly) over _and_ under-taking, more agression and far less patience from other drivers (do 70 and people swear at you as a learner for holding them up).

[Butuz]

Motorways require a lot more awareness than other roads - the reality is people travelling at far higher speeds (the M1 near leicester is three figures in the outside lane regularly) over _and_ under-taking, more agression and far less patience from other drivers (do 70 and people swear at you as a learner for holding them up).

I dont think it does to be honest. You should be aware at all times, not less on some roads and more on others. I would say a motorway is easier than normal roads.

As long as you use your mirrors well - you shouldnt find motorway driving difficult. If course, if you pay little attention to whats in front, or behind you untill the split second you need to overtake, then your not going to enjoy motorways - and i see alot of people that do that.

Butuz

[harry1]

i would 1000 percent say the easiest type of road to drive on is a motorway, unless its the m25 on friday. because you just stay in your lane and thats that no corners to turn no roundabouts, easy as pie, i prefer driving on motorway to dual carrideways because i knwo that the people that want to drive 120 in thier m3s ect can do so in the outside lane and i can be safe out of that in the other lanes unless i decide to go 120 there are less crashes on motorways than other roads i expect? is that true?

[Howard]

Thing is when there is an accident on the motorway, you know about it.

I'd agree they're easier to drive on, as long as you're 110% observant. Lack of this is what causes accidents

[kalniel]

You've also got to be aware of letting other drivers know your intentions much more clearly on a motorway - any lane changes need to be planned in advance and signalled correctly so that other users can fully anticipate your moves. Of course that's important on other roads too but not to the same extent.

Maintaining breaking distance when things are busy is actually quite hard work too - you have to anticipate people moving into your breaking space and react appropriately, always maintaining good situational awareness so that other users know what you're doing.

The other thing is when the poo hits the fan on a motorway it happens fast. Really fast. And closure speeds can be quite frightening. Even after 10 years of driving on them I cannot judge closure rates as well as my boss who's just coming up to retirement. I can judge closure speeds of up to around 15 miles an hour no problem, but I can't spot the difference between say 25 and 40 miles an hour closure speed very easily at all - I allow myself enough space to compensate but others might have different ideas ('oh look there's an accident/queue up ahead, why don't I jump into this lane where this guy has lots of space in front of him..')

[harry1]

You've also got to be aware of letting other drivers know your intentions much more clearly on a motorway - any lane changes need to be planned in advance and signalled correctly so that other users can fully anticipate your moves. Of course that's important on other roads too but not to the same extent.

Maintaining breaking distance when things are busy is actually quite hard work too - you have to anticipate people moving into your breaking space and react appropriately, always maintaining good situational awareness so that other users know what you're doing.

The other thing is when the poo hits the fan on a motorway it happens fast. Really fast. And closure speeds can be quite frightening. Even after 10 years of driving on them I cannot judge closure rates as well as my boss who's just coming up to retirement. I can judge closure speeds of up to around 15 miles an hour no problem, but I can't spot the difference between say 25 and 40 miles an hour closure speed very easily at all - I allow myself enough space to compensate but others might have different ideas ('oh look there's an accident/queue up ahead, why don't I jump into this lane where this guy has lots of space in front of him..')

true kind of.

most of the time on the motorway its not that busy and you can just go whrer you want because the next car is a long way back but tbh indicating is normal driving practise so its nothing new, although i rarley indicate but if i think i need to it gets done lol

i know what you mean like when they all stop and your still going strong at 80 and your like damn they have stopeed

[kalniel]

most of the time on the motorway its not that busy

You've never tried rush hour on the M6/M25/Southern M1 I take it

and you can just go whrer you want because the next car is a long way back

Er no you can't. The roads aren't a private playground If you're not over-taking stay in the left hand lane

although i rarley indicate but if i think i need to it gets done lol

Then it's people who think like you that cause a lot of accidents - indicating doesn't take much effort, it certainly doesn't have any negative effect on your cars performance etc, so why not indicate?

[harry1]

or when there is NO need to why... the motorway i go on isnt that busy during the day so i dont need to because the pople that will see it couldnt react to it because they are so far away. im not saying indicating is stupid because its not, but i dont do it at night because there4 no1 to see, same as in the day when it has no eefect at all on the road so why bother

i said most of the time. rush hour funnily enouhg is usually about an hour or two a day morning and eveining

[dangel]

I dont think it does to be honest. You should be aware at all times, not less on some roads and more on others. I would say a motorway is easier than normal roads.

Yes, but are you a leaner driver? No? Ah. Yes, I find motorways easy but then i've had years of practice, am used to driving at speed and am fully able to use the controls of the car without devoting concentration to do so. The problem is, drivers have a finite amount of attention to give things and learner drivers have to spread it thinner still - all this on roads where things can (and do) happen much more quickly.

My wife is learning at the moment and you can literally see her thinking about the pedals, the stick, the indicators, the steering AS WELL AS having to look in the mirrors and around her - it's quite overwhelming and I'm sure i've forgotten quite how much so it was for me (16 years ago) at the time (when the roads were far less frenetic). And as has been pointed out - a mistake on a motorway has serious consequences (and usually for more than two cars) as compared to on other roads.

The law is there for good reason, and I don't see a single arguement here that will warrant a change. It's interesting that people advocate learner drivers using motorways as they need training on how to drive on such roads, but on the other hand claim the roads are easier to drive on - which seems to counter the original claim that special training is required! How about arguing that a driver who passes their test should immediately take 2 lessons with a qualified instructor on motorway driving by law? Surely that's a far more sensible solution

[dangel]

Then it's people who think like you that cause a lot of accidents - indicating doesn't take much effort, it certainly doesn't have any negative effect on your cars performance etc, so why not indicate?

Agreed - not indicating is plain lazy and, frankly, bloody stupid. It's part and parcel of having little pride in your driving skills and no consideration for other users (who you might not see) of the road.

[kalniel]

or when there is NO need to why... the motorway i go on isnt that busy during the day so i dont need to because the pople that will see it couldnt react to it because they are so far away. im not saying indicating is stupid because its not, but i dont do it at night because there4 no1 to see, same as in the day when it has no eefect at all on the road so why bother

Ok, but presumably when there's no-one on a motorway you won't be doing anything like changing lanes that requires signalling anyway

[harry1]

lorries, and nobs that use the middle lane when they are going slower than the slow lane. apart from that no i cruise at 80 in the clearest lane

[kalniel]

Right but then you *will* be indicating right?

[Howard]

Agreed - not indicating is plain lazy and, frankly, bloody stupid. It's part and parcel of having little pride in your driving skills and no consideration for other users (who you might not see) of the road.

Nicely put, I take pride in my skills, always anticipate when I'm gonna have to move lanes and indicate to do so. All too often I see people who obviously, well, don't anticipate anything, and just hoon up behind a lorry, hit the brakes, THEN look around to see when to overtake (if they bother looking at all and don't just sail out infront of someone)


I'll probably be thinking of this thread as I leave work in a few minutes and negotiate high street / M3 / M25 / high street at the other end

[harry1]

Right but then you *will* be indicating right?

depending on the situation behind me..

ps kalniel u have actually got beef with me lol we are having debates in three threads

[dangel]

Nicely put, I take pride in my skills, always anticipate when I'm gonna have to move lanes and indicate to do so. All too often I see people who obviously, well, don't anticipate anything, and just hoon up behind a lorry, hit the brakes, THEN look around to see when to overtake (if they bother looking at all and don't just sail out infront of someone)


I'll probably be thinking of this thread as I leave work in a few minutes and negotiate high street / M3 / M25 / high street at the other end

Thanks and yes I know exactly what you mean - people seem to be incapable of looking ahead or even doing some basic planning based on what's going on in front of them. I was taught that if you're a good driver, then you should really need to use the brakes on a motorway as you've already anticipated slow moving traffic and backed off accordingly.

On the other hand there are those drivers who believe that turning on an indicator automatically clears the desired lane - as the lady in the XJS demonstrated earlier in the week when i locked up the wheels avoiding her. Nice..