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Thread: Death of video recorder finally played.

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    DR
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    Death of video recorder finally played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davids Monday Morning Moan - From the front page
    Not normally one for the front page, but this is something which is going to annoy me - the move to the digital home is one of bugs and issues. The day of the video recorder was good, we could press 'record' and 99% of the time it would. Everyone bashed VCRs for being hard to use. Yet you try and get a DVD Recorder to tune in properly and record without skipping or glitches? Answer - Well for one it isn't seamless.

    Yet is seems according to a story over at the BBC they are reporting that the biggest High St retailer - Dixon’s Store Group (Dixons, Currys, PCWorld, Link) are going to stop selling the classic video player. So we are going to be forced in to using a DVD Recorder? The reason? Well they are claiming that DVD sales are outstripping this product in sales by 40 to 1.

    Don't get me wrong - I adore new technology, and I make wise decisions on my consumer electronics front. I want things which work first time, without fail. I personally don't want a video recorder/player, but others might. I do believe they have an important part in most living rooms (especially with Xmas just around the corner).

    When DVD drives for PCs first came around 6 years ago I got a Pioneer slot loading SCSI unit, and I know others who also invested in DVDs. At the time I was uncertain if the medium would take off - with the failure of the VCDs. However, it looks as if they have finally won (with a lot of investment from film companies and stores to push it!)

    When I finally moved house - about 9 months ago I moved to a converted pub, I decided to be wise with the integration of technology in to my home. I have no cables running for networking, everything is WiFi, I have 2 DVD players and no VCRs. I have managed to move to a 'digital home' but it has taken a lot of planning. Yes I know I can't have a x.1 setup but sacrafices have to be made.

    However, I have tried to use a DVD recorder, and failed miserably. I didn't want to get the video out of my walk in wardrobe (yes I still have one, but it is not setup at all). So I had to look at other options, which was either a) Media Centre System (I still do not think HTPC is ready for my needs – however, the Microsoft implementation is the most impressive yet.), or b) Sky+ (TiVo).

    I opted for the Sky+ (TiVo) solution, this though has not been problem free with issues including engineers coming out and laying white cables all over the woodwork (spoiling my hard work). I have in the last week moved the Sky+ box in to a cupboard with the use of a 'Remote Eye' to allow me to change channels; this means you can't see the box anymore. Since I had to route a phone line to this point my WiFi unit and ADSL router is now located in this cupboard.

    I believe that the difference between and enthuisast part and a consumer part is the simple word - seamless this means that it works out of the box, and should, in my eyes 'integrate perfectly in to the home with other applications and mediums already in place.' Call me cynical but companies seem to rush products out of the door without properly testing them.

    For examples, take Media Centre - I configured a box with MCE2005 compliant parts, and drivers, and the video stuttered from Sky+ when fed to it. I don't care about recording with dual tuners on to a Media Centre system, neither do I really want to feed my video via it - but it does cut down on cables and should make life easier. I configured a Dual Opteron with a Hauppauge card and ATi Graphics and it still stuttered, that was my final effort after hours of playing. Surely Microsoft should have created a solution which integrates with Sky properly, since, at the end of the day there is millions of subscribers to this service in the UK alone. However, with my old video recorder I can record Sky if I want to (and didn't have Sky+) Surely it would make sense to BSkyB to help integrate the Sky+ solution to MCE, since at the end of the day there is room for both in the market.
    http://www.HEXUS.net#video

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    F.A.S.T. Butuz's Avatar
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    What you say is right about the bugs and issues. "A technology" will never really be ready for mass home use whilst it has bugs, issues, needs patches, etc.

    The video recorder analogy is a great one, you press one button to record, if your program doesnt record, the chances are you screwed it up (wrong channel, etc) not the video recorder.

    The other issue with Windows Media Centre 2005 is that you have to buy a new PC to legally get it. As someone with a few small, powerful, quiet shuttles lying around, why the hell should i then have to go to mesh or evesham and buy yet another PC, just so i can get my hands on what is after all just a small windows XP patch. Do microsoft actually intend to make inroads into everyones houses? Because their going the wrong way about it. If it was a low cost upgrade for XP, or a downloadable patch, you'd see MCE in many many houses, and then who would buy Sky+ ?

    Butuz

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    DR
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    What happens is when your hard drive fails?

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    THERE IS NO WAY THE VHS CAN DIE

    period.

    Lets take some examples cos todays announcement makes me hate Dixons even more than ever.

    Me and Sair have Only Fools and Horses on VIDEO...thats right.....VHS tapes..

    We like them. You wanna know why? Cos you put them in and watch them, then take them out at ANY point and put them on the shelf....then 3 weeks later put it back in, PSUH PLAY and it plays where I stopped./

    DONT ANYONE TELL ME DVD's DO THAT....they do but only with a memory button...and only after 2 minutes sodding about while it reads all the menus and decides if I should have to watch the bloody Legal Jargon AGAIN

    /gets a bit angrier

    NOW...lets get REALLY MAD........DVD recorders are all well and good, BUT when you taker the disk out, it forgets where it was too......

    AND lets get really nasty....don't ANYONE tell me about HARD DISK DRIVES.....

    just dont......


    I have VHS videos that are 10....that's TEN ...years old...and the funny thing is they will still work in another 20 years...yup.....30 years old.

    Find me a hard disk thats gonna do that? Of ya go, Mr Bloody Dixon knob-end...and WHILE YOU ARE OUT THERE, ASK THE MANUFACTURERS OF THE BLOODY THINGS IF....IF...HE'S GONNA BUY SCSI DRIVES OR CRAP OEM ONES


    Oh I cannot BELIEVE that VHS will die.....it cant.

    I've got stuff videod fron telly that rocks. It just CANT go on CD-R....and VIDEO CD...and SUPER VIDEO CD....pah.

    I LOVE technology...love it...desire it even.

    I WANT A HARD DISK RECORDER for Coronation Street , when Mum rings...it can record....and I'll watch it after the old trout has hung up...BUT MY ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES VIDEOS ARE SACRED !!!

    fools.....Dixons are worthless fools. Total boycott.....

    I might walk in JUST so II can walk out in a huff....in fact...tomorrow is my day off....

    and I'm gonna go and ask them for a VHS brochure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Moving shadows... Zedmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zak33
    and I'm gonna go and ask them for a VHS brochure.
    No doubt you'll get a spotty gimp who will try to flog you a DVD recorder claiming that it makes telly "Go Faster"...


    I agree though, VHS is handy in that; no copy protection, start off where you left off, no copy protection, nice analogue format that can record just about anything. Oh, and did I mention no copy protection?

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    Actually, the humble VCR does have copy protection built in, it's just that the copy protection code isn't broadcast.
    (\__/)
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    Moving shadows... Zedmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoo
    Actually, the humble VCR does have copy protection built in, it's just that the copy protection code isn't broadcast.
    Really? Good grief, I didn't know that!

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    Can't beat an SVHS recorder for hardcore-ness

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    Moving shadows... Zedmeister's Avatar
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    Or expense

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    Rys
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    My DVD deck remembers the last played position of all the disks I've ever inserted into it.

    For example, I was watching Jay and Silent Bob a few weeks back but never made it to the end of the movie. I stopped it and since I was watching it I've had cause to use the deck to record some stuff and watch other movies. I put Jay and Silent Bob back in the other day and it started playing from where I left off.

    Clever things these days

    VHS is a vile format and does need to die. Progress please! Rewinding and fast forward that doesn't happen instantly is terrible. And don't even get me started on picture quality. And no, VHS won't last for ever. Leave tapes on your shelf long enough and they'll degrade.

    Yes, that'll happen to DVDs too, but meh, VHS won't survive eternity like some are claiming.

    And the disk drive in your Sky+ might fail. NEWS FLASH, IT'S A PIECE OF CONSUMER ELECTRONICS! Stuff dies. Use your nice warranty and have it replaced and quit whinging. Your VHS deck is never going to fail I take it? Never ever going to have a tape wrap itself round the heads? I see.

    Oh noes, copy protection. Just keep the original safe? Put the disks back in their box and keep them scratch free? You shouldn't have to copy a DVD. Using a DVD recorder , especially with a hard disk inside, lets you copy whatever the hell you like, that you've recorded.

    VHS is rubbish, stop living in the past.
    MOLLY AND POPPY!

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    VHS will die, its on its last legs already, DVD will soon take over completly, mirroring the cassette tape - CD situation.

    As for hard drives breaking - yes they do, just like everything else with moving parts. Video Recorders break, DVD players break, Hard Drives break. Still rather have the latest and greatest tech to hand, and have the benefit of it whilst it works, then repair or replace.

    Better that than hanging on to an outdated and dieing tech, surly?

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    Moving shadows... Zedmeister's Avatar
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    With regards to copy protection, I was more concerned with the fact that some content providers (Over in yank, at least) are looking to stop broadcasts being copied - no recording of your favourite movies, comedies, et al. VHS doesn't allow that - Leastways, I used to think that until Stoo corrected me. Still, tis food for thought...

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    Moving shadows... Zedmeister's Avatar
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    Thing is, if a dvd drive breaks, you don't have to replace your entire vid collection. Trouble with a Hard Drive, if it breaks, corrupts, whatever - Bang goes your recordings...

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    Was called round to a friends uncle yesterday, he just bought some new kit;

    1 x LG 42" Plasma Screen
    1 x Sony DVD recorder
    1 x Skybox

    Firstly GIT!!!

    Secondly I found the dvd recorder an absolute dream to use compared to vhs, quality is superb, even on Extended Playback.

    Thirdly it was nice because he bought 5 x DVD+RWs which didn't work (-r or RAM only), so had the opportunity to liberate them from him
    Last edited by daniel_owen_uk; 22-11-2004 at 02:35 PM.

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    I agree with Zak.
    PVR, hard disk and DVD recording is a young and (IMO) immature technology which is no way close to denting the maturity and simplicity of VHS recording.

    Almost everyone has a VHS recorder, the reason beeing because they have been around for years. People have become accustomed to them, people know how to use them, and even techno-phobes can use them.

    As can be seen form David's experience you need to be a techie to get a PVR, HTPC, XP MCE etc system up and running at all (let alone seamlessly) with the rest of your setup. How many people in the real world will have the patience or the expertise to try and get such a setup to work properly?

    I think it will be a few years before the technology is mature enough for a widespread use. To a certain extent the fact that the technology is based on PC components goes against it. Any PVR etc system you buy today is going to be as good as obsolete in two or three years time and the components will probably start dying soon after . Yet my 3 year old VHS system works as good as the day I got it and is in no way obsolete. Considering that these PVR etc systems are way more expensive than a a VHS player I cannot see how they are a sensible option for the general public.

    Also you can pick up cheap secondhand VHS videos for next to nothing while second hand DVDs are relatively expensive.

    TBH i think the Dixons figures do not spell the death of the VHS recorder. They probably indicate the reliability and maturity of the technology, most people have VHS recorders so maybe the only people buying them are doing so to replace broken ones. On the other hand DVD players and recorders are new, sexy, products which people want to buy.

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    Ohh and to counter the arguement about dvds not having position memory;

    I recorded 2 shows to test the box yesterday, after they had recorded how long do you think it took me to fast forward from one to the other? Thats right I didn't have to fast forward.

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