iPOD or not?

[TooNice]

Its a bit like AMD vs INTEL

I think it is nothing like it. Unless you merely look at market shares. Or support AMD only because it is an underdog.

Frankly speaking, if I was to support a company, it definitely would not be Creative in the first place. Just look at their business practice on the sound card industry. Far worse than Apple on the MP3 market if you ask me.

But I don't like to get political with my purchases. I did buy an X-Fi (top of the range for that matter) because it fits my needs and there is no competition when it comes to gaming sound card. I support AMD not because it is the underdog or to be different from those who buy Dell, but because it currently makes a better product overall for most consumer's need.

The difference between Apple & competitors is far more subtle, I think that a better analogy is Asus vs DFI. Or Sennheiser vs Grado. Both offer something good for the same market, but one may be more suited to one than another.

Basically, it's a society today where 'everyone' has to look good, except me, as I purley couldn't give a toss

I could switch the quote to the following:
'Basically, it's a sub-culture where 'everyone' has to be different, except me, as I purely couldn't give a toss.'
(Quote added to 'everyone' - because it is clearly not the case in either case)

Even with looks completely out of the equation, I don't find the current iPod to sound any worse than the iAudio or Creative (I did try all three in HK earlier this year - personally I like the sound of both the X5 and G5 more than the M:Vision, but it is subtle enough and nothing I can't get used to). It would be a mistake to think that everyone pick an iPod for it's look.. just like not everyone who buys an alternative product does it to be different (I may defend Apple a lot now, but I hardly think of it as the holy grail of MP3 players - it just happen to have the balance of features I value more compared to competing products).

edit: And ya, the iPod do need an external accessory for this feature. http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive...hoto_conn.html Not as convenient as the Vision:M for this application.

[Alex]

the zen vision has that built in, the ipod (i believe) you can get a card reader accessory thingy for it

or just get a bigger mem card - 2 gig is good for ~900 photos.. if you get more than that on an average hol start being more picky

Well, I'm going off as part of my course for 2 months, and I took 500ish on a 2 week holiday in Canada last year, so I'm expecting to possibly take more than that. Other than that fact, I'mm probably get a HDD player anyway, and this would be one of the more useful abilities as far as I would be concerned.

[Tarffie]

Also it has an FM Radio.

Who the chuff chooses an MP3 player because it has a radio built in? That's just another one of those daft things people use as an arguement again iPods.

my mates U2 one broke in half

o rly? He was just listening to it and next thing he knew it was in two pieces? Wasn't one of those daft sods that put things in their back pocket and sit down...?

[Odc]

I've never bought one and never will. My Creative Zen Toucn 20Gb does me nicely with a phat battery life.

[mart_haj86]

Creative all the way, plus if something goes wrong they are usually very good about it, my zen micro (blue) died after the headphone jack died, so i sent it back to them and within 2 days they contacted me to say that the blue wasnt in stock (didnt want blue anyway - i got it cheaper, thats all) so i asked for a silver instead, and 2 more days later it arrived very well packaged, and im talking super super size bubble wrap lol

[splodger101]

A quick hello from a newbie....

I imported a Toshiba Megabeat X30 from Japan and bought myself a pair of Shure E4C phones ..... excellent!!! As for the iPod vs the world (all other mp3 players) debate, just go with what makes you happy...

[TooNice]

That's a good point. No players come with earbuds that does the player justice. No Creative, no Sony, no iRiver, Archos, iAudio etc... and no Apple. It doesn't matter which one you go for, you are not getting the most of your player (sound quality wise) until you swap those stock earbuds.

I brought my Westone UM2 when I tested the players. Might be overkill for most, but I'd say that a good pair of £20-30 earphone/clip-ons/headphones will be much better.

[tahrey]

I love the applephiles who come up with silly arguments as to why they bought an overpriced, under-featured player (real reason: it looks pretty and was the best marketed).

FM radio? Yes please. Mine has that. I listen to it sometimes. Good for weather reports for starters, and there's some shows that I like to catch (well, this is the case in the UK, where we have good quality radio stations that are worth listening to )

Photo backup - mine also has this built in. However, my friend's video ipod, which he bought for twice the cost of my small-brand device (getting another 10gb of room - a good 18 months after my 20gb was made - and the ability to play dodgy mobile phone quality videos for his money), DOESNT do this... and he spent a further fifty quid on an EXTERNAL device so that he could! (he's trekking thru new zealand right now, needs the ability, as i demonstrated how useful it is on a previous trip).

Mine's a Novatech N-Pod --- a label brand of some generic chinese thing, but what a G.C.T. it is... at least one company is still rebadging them (T-Logic, in italy, as the TL252 Speedway). Nice little device. Cost me all of £120 when iPods with the same storage and comparable screens (and far less features, except the "search by ID3" thing.. though you can import winamp playlists) cost closer to £250... and were noticably larger at the time.
Alternatively, my brother has a Creative Zen that he got cheap off eBay - 30gb, and a similar size to a regular iPod. He loves it, can't find fault. Also has FM in it, and though it loses the USB backup option, it's got that handy ID3 insta-playlist function.

I can't vouch for the 'phones that come with an iPod, but i didn't even unwrap the NPod ones - I already have pairs of fairly nice Philips (earbud) and JVC (pad-on with neckband) phones that cost about £20-25 each, do much greater justice to the audio, and have lasted a very long while. Unfortunately the similarly priced fold-up set of Philips pad-ons I got to go with my ol' Sony MDLP (back when it was cutting-edge and far more portable / better value than mp3) couldn't stand up to the rigors of three years of university life, or I'd still be using them - great things they were, too bad they're discontinued.

---my mates U2 one broke in half
o rly? He was just listening to it and next thing he knew it was in two pieces? Wasn't one of those daft sods that put things in their back pocket and sit down...?

no worries here. nice sturdy brushed aluminium case, wrapped around an inner rubberised anti-shock shell. i could probably stand on it and not have it break (not that i'm going to try! but i've sat on it from time to time with no noticable effect... the U2 pod has no excuse)

[alterion]

i have an HD5 too check out atraclife.com for some half-decent alternatives to sonic stage (which is actually okay if you use it in conjunction w itunes or something) the drm algotrim has apprently been reerse engineered.. but the person who did it droped off the face of the planet and the best anyone else had been able to do is get songs off the player.
In terms of phones i would look at the CX300's from sennheiser their only £31 and my pair sound superb! (getting rave reviews on herad-fi if youwant to look at some opinions - they really do benefit from burn in!)
but all the best players have sadly been discontinued the H320/340 and the rio series can no lomger be had

[TooNice]

I love the applephiles who come up with silly arguments as to why they bought an overpriced, under-featured player (real reason: it looks pretty and was the best marketed).

FM radio? Yes please. Mine has that. I listen to it sometimes. Good for weather reports for starters, and there's some shows that I like to catch (well, this is the case in the UK, where we have good quality radio stations that are worth listening to )

Photo backup - mine also has this built in. However, my friend's video ipod, which he bought for twice the cost of my small-brand device (getting another 10gb of room - a good 18 months after my 20gb was made - and the ability to play dodgy mobile phone quality videos for his money), DOESNT do this... and he spent a further fifty quid on an EXTERNAL device so that he could! (he's trekking thru new zealand right now, needs the ability, as i demonstrated how useful it is on a previous trip).

Mine's a Novatech N-Pod --- a label brand of some generic chinese thing, but what a G.C.T. it is... at least one company is still rebadging them (T-Logic, in italy, as the TL252 Speedway). Nice little device. Cost me all of £120 when iPods with the same storage and comparable screens (and far less features, except the "search by ID3" thing.. though you can import winamp playlists) cost closer to £250... and were noticably larger at the time.
Alternatively, my brother has a Creative Zen that he got cheap off eBay - 30gb, and a similar size to a regular iPod. He loves it, can't find fault. Also has FM in it, and though it loses the USB backup option, it's got that handy ID3 insta-playlist function.

I can't vouch for the 'phones that come with an iPod, but i didn't even unwrap the NPod ones - I already have pairs of fairly nice Philips (earbud) and JVC (pad-on with neckband) phones that cost about £20-25 each, do much greater justice to the audio, and have lasted a very long while. Unfortunately the similarly priced fold-up set of Philips pad-ons I got to go with my ol' Sony MDLP (back when it was cutting-edge and far more portable / better value than mp3) couldn't stand up to the rigors of three years of university life, or I'd still be using them - great things they were, too bad they're discontinued.



no worries here. nice sturdy brushed aluminium case, wrapped around an inner rubberised anti-shock shell. i could probably stand on it and not have it break (not that i'm going to try! but i've sat on it from time to time with no noticable effect... the U2 pod has no excuse)

Buy what you need. But refrain from making vague generalisations about "real reasons".

Yea there are people who buys the iPod for its look. A perfectly legitimate reason in its own right. I don't see the problem come to think of it. One person need a player built like a tank, another would rather have something pretty.

What I find silly, are people who would only recognise what their player has over the iPod, ignoring what the iPod has over their favorite players (or merely mentioning the look). The chances are, their players is also lacking certain features the iPod has, but it just happens that they don't need it.

It is good that people look at the alternative, weight their needs before buying a player. That is being smart. But to claim that everyone who buy Apple products do it for solely aesthetic reasons is delusional. If you automatically assume that Apple is all look, then chances are, you may miss out a great product which might actually be better for your needs because of your own prejudice. I did encourage friends to look at alternatives a few years back. But I have no problem recommending Apple now. Not as the sole option, but ruling it out.

As for value.. I don't see people criticising the iAudio X5, even though the price is roughly the same as it's Apple competitor for the 60GB version. What I like about both players, is that they both have features designed to maximise sound quality. Lossless & lineout (except the G5 does the later better). Of course, the best player in that sense would be the older iRiver which came with an optical out, or I believe some of the earlier Nomad (wasn't paying too much attention to them back then), but they are both fairly outdated.

As to the Karma, well, I was actually holding for the Karma 2, but it was never released. That player also had its reliability issues, but it is indeed highly regarded.

[autopilot]

Buy what you need. But refrain from making vague generalisations about "real reasons".

Yea there are people who buys the iPod for its look. A perfectly legitimate reason in its own right. I don't see the problem come to think of it. One person need a player built like a tank, another would rather have something pretty.

What I find silly, are people who would only recognise what their player has over the iPod, ignoring what the iPod has over their favorite players (or merely mentioning the look). The chances are, their players is also lacking certain features the iPod has, but it just happens that they don't need it.

It is good that people look at the alternative, weight their needs before buying a player. That is being smart. But to claim that everyone who buy Apple products do it for solely aesthetic reasons is delusional. If you automatically assume that Apple is all look, then chances are, you may miss out a great product which might actually be better for your needs because of your own prejudice. I did encourage friends to look at alternatives a few years back. But I have no problem recommending Apple now. Not as the sole option, but ruling it out.

As for value.. I don't see people criticising the iAudio X5, even though the price is roughly the same as it's Apple competitor for the 60GB version. What I like about both players, is that they both have features designed to maximise sound quality. Lossless & lineout (except the G5 does the later better). Of course, the best player in that sense would be the older iRiver which came with an optical out, or I believe some of the earlier Nomad (wasn't paying too much attention to them back then), but they are both fairly outdated.

As to the Karma, well, I was actually holding for the Karma 2, but it was never released. That player also had its reliability issues, but it is indeed highly regarded.

I agree with you. But the problem is, the way i see it anyway, that while we may be very knowledgable about issues regarding audio codecs etc, the vast majority of iPod owners are not. While there is nothing really wrong with it, most people buy iPod's because A) They look nice (well, they do) and B) Buying technology like this for themselves/as a gift for thier kids etc, is a daunting task for most people and feel more at ease with the iPod brand.

Apple know very well that these are the two main reasons, and thus put all of there effort's into those, while over-looking other issues that are important to the likes of us more knowledgable Hexus types. For example, no gapless playback even at the 5 generation and poor battery life due mainly to the ever increasing desire for most people to have the gadgets snaller and smaller (and pointless colour screens IMO).

The upside of course is that the Ipod + Itunes is the most easy to get your head around for less technical people. For this reason, the iPod is one of the only MP3 players i would recommend to most people (well, as long as they will never want to listen to DJ sets, Audio books, live gigs, opera, etc...). Although i would certainly never recommend anyone buys music from the itunes store, the world has gone mad there.

You are right TooNice, the iPod is a great bit of kit, but while Apple ontinue to play up to the lowest common denominator (and their terrible stance on DRM), the iPod is not for me. Maybe because i am a bit geeky. Sorry

[headbrace]

Ah, the age old debate. Everyone here know that I'm a Apple person, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the arguments agains the iPod.

I've had a 1st Gen 5Gb one and currently have a 40gb iPod Photo, which has served me very well. One of my friends here has bought himself a Creative Zen Vision thingmy, and occasionaly tries to lord it over me with it. Whilst is a spangly bit of kit, I have yet to find any machine that has such an intuitive user software or input as the iPod. Creative tried to jump on the touch-scroll bandwagon, but the vertical scrolling is pretty annoying in my experience. Your mileage may vary, but I have no difficulty spinning my thumb around to get to my songs.

I don't listen to the radio, or at least the shows I want to listen to are not on at a time that I would like to listen to them at, so I download them later on, and so my iPod works just fine and dandy. If you want to listen to the radio, then don't buy a play without a radio built in. The same can go for most arguements - don't buy anything just because everyone else has, just buy i because it suits you. For the vast majority of people, the iPod does most of the things they want in the easiest-to-use package, which for many is more important that the ability to play OGG files etc.

Just my 2p.


Oh, and as for the iPod being "heavily marketed", bear in mind that whole of the advertising campaign revolves around some silhouettes dancing.

[TooNice]

@dangerous_dom: That's fair enough.
I won't go as far as to say that most people who buy the iPod do it for functional reasons more than aesthetic (but I don't think it is a tiny number either). But a player that have a large appeal to the later doesn't automatically make it a poor player.

I don't think that to date, there is any single player out there that catters for every needs of a music lover. I'd say the following would be desirable:

- Support for lossless (by association, large HD, and good battery life - lossless do use up more batteries).
- Optical out
- Good DAC/Op-amp for people who do not have an external DAC/amp
- Gapless
- Parametric equalizer

The above is just for music playback. Those would be nice to have (but perhaps even compulsory for some people):
- Support for alternative codec that you often use (I still think that MP3 is fine for lossy - but more option doesn't hurt).
- Intuitive UI
- Usable as an external HD drive without special applications
- Radio
- Voice recorder
- Well built without weighting a ton
- Have some kind of card reader or ways to connect USB devices/digital camera etc.

Actually, the list can go on, some people might actually value video playback etc. etc.

Suffice to say though. No player to this date fufills all of above, and dare I say, most of above. Some people might go, "yea well, I don't care about an optical out, its not like I'll carry a DAC with me on a portable player anyway". Or, "for portable use, lossless is overkill". Sure, that is your preference, just as I don't find built in radio that important either.

That said, Apple did try out something different with the Shuffle (push-pull output). There are some group of people who did point it out, and the benefit to SQ it did. But it seems that only a small niche of people took note for it. The average consumer probably find the device too limiting, and I think that is the same stance as most Hexus users take. Not unreasonable, as the Shuffle -does- have too many limitations compared to even a generic flash player. But I am wondering whether Apple/Apple competitor would work in that positive direction if more people recognise that positive aspect of the player.

[99Flake]

Actually a top of the range HiMD player will do most of the above, that is why I have one. Oh and they sound better.

[TooNice]

At the cost of capacity. If you go lossless you are looking at... 2 albums a disc?

If we are going that direction, then some of the old, big "portable" CD-Player are better.

[p5-]

My Rio Karma died the other day The seemingly normal hard drive click.

I'm on the lookout for a new mp3 player that can do flac, ogg vorbis and gapless in both those two.

But just looking at the ipods is so tempting. I've not heard anybody mention rockbox here, which is open source firmware allowing ipods to play OGG, FLAC in gapless and a few other codecs too.

Anyone here tried rockbox on their ipod?