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Thread: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

  1. #17
    Moosing about! CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    Quote Originally Posted by moshpit View Post
    I just wasn't that worried about it as with timings so close between the old set and new set, the final performance equation shouldn't matter so much and equal out nicely. The main thing though is keeping the old ram with the old setup for another build. And honestly, Corsair has never, ever done me wrong. I've never felt short changed in any game, benchmark, or application due to Corsair memory performance. I don't expect to feel so now.

    Also, not to be rude, but it's poor form to come back when somebody says "I'm excited that I bought this..." with "Personally, I wouldn't have done that" as a response. I do tend to question the motivation for that kind of behavior. You are free to respond how you like, but you are not free from the consequences of showing poor manners, the consequences being having it pointed out. Carry on!
    Because Corsair use any kind of memory ICs they get in stock.So you end up with say their Vengence line with 3 different revisions,each corresponding to each of the main suppliers - Samsung,Micron and Hynix. They have a tendency to chop and change memory IC types so you can't go by what reviews tell you. If you are lucky you can get A-class memory ICs,or something not so good. Its a lottery,so you can luck out or not. So I hope you have got something decent.

    Its also meant people who bought one kit of the same Corsair RAM,and then decided to double their RAM with the same kit,ended up with mismatched kits(different memory ICs). Many here had that problem with Corsair themselves and Ryzen- and you yourself said you were on Intel. Intel has historically had far more forgiving memory controllers. There are loads and loads of posts on here WRT to Ryzen and memory. This is coming off the last few years of people testing these things - its no point shooting the messenger and blaming me for how AMD made Zen CPUs.

    I literally only have bought Corsair SFX PSUs for the last couple of years,so not sure what you are saying about being "biased" to Crucial. Crucial is owned by Micron,and said certain lines only had their best Micron ICs such as E-die,and these have been the go to buys for Ryzen builds when you can get them. Micron is one of the main DRAM makers in the world.

    Zen2 and Zen3 are very finicky with DRAM IC type if you want tighter timings,and Zen scales well with tighter timings and subtimings. This is down to the way the Infinity Fabric,memory controller,etc all interact with each other. The Zen2/Zen3 memory controller is a separate chip to the cores,so relies on the Infinity Fabric to communicate with the core die. So not only is speed important,but tighter timings and subtimings. The Infinity Fabric and DRAM speed are tied with each other.

    This is the layout for Zen2 - Zen3 only moves to a single 8 core CCX(not the pair shown),but the way the different dies communicate is the same.



    The part which says 32B/cycle is the Infinity Fabric link.

    The monolithic ring bus Intel CPUs don't care as much as AMD because of the way AMD attaches everything to the Infinity Fabric,and moved to chiplets. AMD nicely released a slide for Zen2.



    3600C16 matches the stock timings of Samsung E-die and Micron E-die kits,which implies AMD was pointing to those kits IMHO.

    The slide for Zen3(Ryzen 5000) ups the ante a bit.



    I should know when I had to resort to getting something outside what I wanted due to the shortages of some RAM kits last year. I ended up with Hynix CJR which even with tuning is slightly worse than Micron E-die at stock,which will tune even better with specific subtimings,and this was a kit with a 50:50 chance of getting Hynix CJR or Micron E-die. My previous B-die kit could hold better timings(but was only 16GB).

    Samsung B-die and Micron E-die are the best in terms of Zen memory tuning so far,which is far more important than for Intel which is more plug and play. They both use the same I/O die,meaning they show similar scaling.

    I literally told you to check your older RAM to see if it has one of the better DRAM IC types and you are getting annoyed with me! For example Samsung B-die is much harder to get now than a few years ago. This will usually tell you what the IC is:
    http://www.softnology.biz/files.html

    This application is used by many Ryzen owners to calculate optimised timings(includes ability to import the data from Thaiphoon Burner):
    https://www.techpowerup.com/download...am-calculator/
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 13-03-2021 at 11:27 PM.

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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    That Ryzen owners optimized timings thing! Thank you! Excellent help!

    And really, I cannot change the ram out as the deal I got on it was a one day sale. I just don't have any options in it's price range that are better, and the deal was particularly killer.

    HOWEVER, that Ryzen timings optimizer calculator will be of IMMENSE help!

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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    The reason it's even a sore subject is it seems EVERYBODY and their dog wants to tell me what they think I should have bought instead of just giving me hints on getting the most out of what I have. And it's bullcrap as I am perfectly happy with what I bought and know exactly how it fits in the budget AND specs I intend for.

    For one, 4x8Gb was a must. All slots full. Second RGB, specifically Corsair controlled. I am invested in Corsair RGB throughout my system, other brands are not welcome suggestions as they conflict with my intent. Telling people to stop telling me what to buy got very annoying.

    I don't want advice on what to buy. I WOULD like advice on how to get the most out of what -I- chose to put in my build. I will learn my own lessons my own way and do not see hardware purchasing advice to be helpful at all. I never ask for it unless I am sure I need that help, and then I will ask VERY directly "Hey, what should I get?". On three different forums now, people's first reaction is "Buy something else!" as if that's an option. It's not. Nor is it welcome at all. In fact it's irrelevant as I see no problem at all with the same ram I've seen in multiple review platforms on major web sites.

    If I wanted the absolute fastest of everything, I wouldn't be considering RGB compatibility elements as a necessary component of the purchase, right? The fastest ram has no RGB. The fastest M.2 drive has no RGB. I would say the fastest GPUs, but that is no longer true as RGB has invaded everything video card related now. I didn't pick parts PURELY for being very fast, though they ARE that. NOBODY yet has tried to tell me this build will be slower than normal, or substandard in any way. They try to push higher cost, higher performance parts on me that I cannot afford, my budget is played out. The one day deal on ram is unrepeatable for now, until that sale comes back or something better comes along. I have no intention of waiting that long for next to no reason.

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    • moshpit's system
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    Honestly, that is a fair statement, I think.

    Correct me if this statement is untrue as I wonder what people think to make constant push for me to pick different hardware than I personally already picked:

    "The parts in this list will perform exactly average for this set of hardware. It will not be the top of the charts for this level of spec, but it will not be the worst either. It is exactly average for it's specs."

    True or false?

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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    You might be the most unlikeable person I've ever encountered on an internet forum. God only help your family and colleagues.

    I note that the image you posted in your OP shows that you still have the option of cancelling or changing your order.

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  8. #22
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    • moshpit's system
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    Quote Originally Posted by wazzickle View Post
    You might be the most unlikeable person I've ever encountered on an internet forum. God only help your family and colleagues.

    I note that the image you posted in your OP shows that you still have the option of cancelling or changing your order.
    Yeah, but that's my whole point, WHY do you think you have the right to tell me to do so? I don't give a crap what you think I should buy. I never asked for that advice.

    Unlikable? How unlikable is unsolicited and useless advice? You cannot beat the price I got on a one day sale with ANY suggestion you make. Changing ram was NEVER on the menu. Why do you think you have the right to insist otherwise? This is NOT your build, not your money. I never asked for ram help, nor do I want any. HOW difficult is that for you to comprehend?

    Nothing in my order needs changing. It's fine as is. That's the part that floors me, you thinking I'm unlikable because I won't bend to YOUR demand of what I should put in my computer. Who are you to demand anything of my build? Or act like I have to obey or be disliked? That's ridiculous.

    Also, my family and colleagues respect me and actually treat me with that respect to not second guess my build choices unnecessarily. What do you hope to gain for me by making me jump through hoops? 10% I call BS if you think you will gain that much in the same price range I already paid.

    Final memory price on one day sale + 15 dollars off deal = 169.99 for 32Gb of 3200mhz with RGB and 4x8Gb.

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT SETUP? Nothing in that deal is needing of change. I love the deal! I WAS excited about my choices until people like you WHINED and cried about demanding I build with YOUR choice of hardware... who the hell do you think you are?
    Last edited by moshpit; 14-03-2021 at 02:08 AM.

  9. #23
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    • moshpit's system
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    And EVERY ignorant suggestion to "Cancel the order" doesn't take into account the 48 hour wait for the money to go back to my account... all the sales I caught will be gone. Every bit of extra value I managed to wring out in price, YOU would make me throw away to satisfy your own ego. WHY??? What is in this for you, wazzicle, other than "proving your right" when there is no wrong here to be proven! The ram I chose is PERFECTLY FINE. You cannot tell me it will run substandard. That would be A LIE!

    It will just not run as fast as BETTER than standard, but it will certainly meet the standards that a 5800X should be running at. Is that so hard to understand, or you just gonna stick to your guns and demand I bend to your will like all the other fools have so far? You are wasting yours and my time. The ram choice is not up for debate. It's done and anybody telling me to waste my time for less than 10% performance OR trying to force more money out of me can suck my left nut.

  10. #24
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    Ok I think that will do. People tried to help and you have been incredibly rude to them. I wish you well on your new build but can no longer stand by with your abusive attitude toward fellow members.
    Jon

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  12. #25
    Grumpy and VERY old :( g8ina's Avatar
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    Re: Upgrading from i7 7700K to Ryzen 7 5800X

    Thanks Jon, I was about to do it.... Thanks for your patience guys, esp Cat
    Cheers, David



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