Can we start the Why Doom3 sucks thread yet?

[Nomadd]

Or do we have to wait for the 13th?

Sorry, but I've finished the game and think it's pretty poor. Thank god I only paid £25 for it. The 10/10 and 9/10 scores that are coming in at the web 'review' sites are just unbelievable. Most honest so far is Gamespot, with an 8.5 (which is still 2 points too high, IMHO). Amazing what "Devotion to all things ID" and "I'm a graphics whore, so Doom3 must be great" can do to people's judgement. Let's just hope UK's Edge magazine will also do this game justice with one of their normally very fair reviews (5/10?).

Just in case this thread survives locking, I'll get the ball rolling (SPOLIERS):

1. Too damn dark. Everywhere. All the time. What's the point of great graphics if you can't see a damn thing? Oh, and it's dark all the way through. No restbite.
2. Boring, exceptionally repetitive level design. Played the first 10 minutes of Doom3? Well, you seen all of it. Same 'Mars offices' all the way through, except for some really sucky 'Hell' levels.
3. Horrid game play. Can't see a damn thing, so you have to keep switching between the damn torch and your weapon. Except that you've usually been mauled by the time you switch. This is supposed to be fun? It's irritating after 10 minutes; after 10 hours, well...
4. Monsters spawn behind you, in front of you, or just leap out of 'hidden' wall panels. They just 'appear' in the most stupid of places. And the trigger events for these are not just stupidly placed, but entirely predictable. And you'll get sick to death of being jumped on from behind, all the time. Works OK once as a 'horror suprise', but after the 200th time you are sick to death of it.
5. Monster AI? Forget it. Just gun them down as they run at you. And do this for the next 20 hours until you reach the end. Switch you brain off when you play this game - that way you'll match your opponents.
6. Great graphics? Well, the monsters sometimes look good (Bosses) but are mostly very low-poly angular affairs. Weapons models are really nice, about the only really 'good' graphics in it. The levels (apart from the bland, repetitive design) either look dull with textures that blur badly close up, or look over-shiny and plasticky. BTW, this is on an overclocked 6800GT with 4xAA and 8xAF on Ultra settings, before you bitch about my rig/config/eys! :-)
7. Sounds. Jeez, plasma rifle and machine gun have the most limp weapons sound effects I've heard in a long while. The rest aren't much better. Environment audio is a little better. Music is normal recent ID thrash metal tripe.
8. Your Marine is slow, slow, slow. And can only run about 20 feet before he has to slow down to a crawl again. He must be the most unfit marine in the universe. The buzz of Doom1/2 just isn't there. Yes, I know D3 *is* supposed to be a slower game, but this is taking things too far.
9. Open levels. Nope, all tiny things, mainly indoors. Outdoor sections are small and repetitive. Oh, and the idea that you are running out of breath outside is laughable, and wears thin quickly (PS. The temperature/pressure would kiill you in and instant, so why this 'breathless' thing?)
10. Vehicles - like Halo/UT2004? Forget it. Nothing. Nada.
11. Big gun implacements to run and use to wipe mobs of monsters out with? Nope. Nada.
12. Depth, at least a tiny bit of tatics or strategy (i.e. not DeusEx 1, but at least a little 'something')? Nope. Nothing. Nada. Run and gun that grew tied 13 years ago - and it was done much better then. Mindless r&g has been done much, much better in Serious Sam 1/2 and Painkiller. Doom3 gamplay sucks big time in comparison.
14. Teamplay with other bots, a least to relieve the tedium - especially when most of the game has your boss constantly whining at you to 'find your team'? Nope, no other AI team mates (NB. I not a fan of this anyway, but the rest of Doom3 is so damn slow and boring I hoped I'd find some teammates just to relieve the boredom. But no.)

And so on, and so on. Please, please, please Valve, get HL2 out to save me!

Having played every damn fps out there in the last 10 years or more I was really, REALLY looking forward to Doom3. God, how disappointed I've been. If you are undecided on this game, wait for the demo - as even if it's only 10 minutes long you'll get to see the whole damn game. Oh, and play it 100 times back-to-back to get and idea of how slow, tedious and repetitive the full game is.

OK, so some of you may love it. I didn't. And I think the review scores and rantings over it's 'greatness' on the web have just driven me nuts. I can't believe how much cash must have changed hands out there for rubbish *gameplay* like this to be rated so highly. Doom3: An engine looking for a game.

Cheers,

Nomadd

Nomadd

[Grey M@a]

right for one, this should be removed, secondly you should of waited till the 13th so we all had a chance to play it, and 3 stop with the spoilers, why spoil the game for those that have not seen or played it as yet. Personally huge ass red censored stamp over the post

[Shogun]

If he purchased it legally i don't see why this thread should be removed.

[GreenPiggy]

I think the point of his thread is to stop people buying it.

[Grey M@a]

seems as peeps missed the at the end of the post, it was done jokingly, I can't stop people posting this stuff, I just refuse to read it until I play the game and make my own judgements It's almost like you are waiting in queue for the movie at the cinema and someone comes up to you and tells you the plot, the story, the ending :/ Oh your first comment about it being dark, its supposed to thats what the flash light is for in the game Aliens Vs Predator was dark all the time to but it worked as the aliens would jump at you causing your bowels to relax to fast and you crapped yourself and started shooting everywhere, this is possibly what iD have gone for, so you can't quite see whats where etc.

[dkmech]

I see what you are saying about the darkness grey m@a, but i think darkness works best in limited amounts. You are walking around and then an event triggers a powercut. Or you have to go into a dark basement. Then there is a big difference in perception of darkness. If its dark all the bloody time then you just up the gamma to save your eyes from straining too much and bear it. Also light lets you play with shadows. Is there something lurking in the dark recesses or is that just paranoya? I am sick and tired of almost every game being dark. Far Cry alternated outdoors and dark areas to good effect.

I think it is sad when developers are forced to introduce a really cool new thing, making you think - wow, that was awesome - and then repeat it until it makes you hurt. I can't think of an exact example but i hope you understand what i mean.

As for spoilers, i don't think he spoiled any of the plot for me. Although he did confirm my suspicions that all this is is Doom 2.5 in glossy 3D. I have started reading pcgamer review of it (90%) and they do mention that it is Doom, and not much more, but they somehow managed to find the 90% in there. I will read it and report a bit more on what they say later.

They did say something quite true though. Sometimes we have to judge a game on what it is, rather than on what its not.

But not for 45 quid RRP if you ask me. I am getting used to buying my games for 18 pounds and am not paying 28 quid for this (thats what play ask). Although to be fair I wasn't at all excited about doom 3 anyway.

[Grey M@a]

£45 0.o wheres that? play have it for £26, oh the comment about this being just doom, of course it is, its a sort of similar story to doom 1 as carmack said himself, and I quote from his .plan "This is how I saw Doom all those years ago, obviously we have changed the story and added new aspects to the game, but this is how Doom should be played" He then goes on to say that they are woking on a new FPS that isn't based around the doom or quake worlds

[dkmech]

45 is rrp - recommended retail price (should say that on play webby too btw). I.e. what you would expect to pay for it in pcworld/hmv and the like. Normally games are rrp 30-35 pounds. Reason why its 26 on play is that rrp is 45 not 35. So even with plays significant discounts it works out as a lot of cash. For instance normally play preorders are 18 pounds for things like Stalker. I also paid 18 for unreal 2k4.

Actually 45 rrp might be for the special edition - but thats the only one out for the first 3 months, so i am going to count it as 45 rrp for the game anyway, which is asking quite a lot.

As for it being doom - thats all great, and i am sure we are all nostalgic and our ears are pricked up in antcipation. And on some level everyone dreamt of "playing doom with great graphics". But i think that with so many great games having passed between doom 2 and doom 3 we should be as strict to it as we would be to any other game. Other games get a hiding for poor ai, repetitive gameplay with poor variety, monster spawning behind your back. I see no reason so far to judge doom 3 any less strictly.

I think that in the end it should boil down to how much fun we get out of playing it. And if it being just pretty Doom is not enough (which i think it won't be for many people) then it should get appropriate response - i.e. reviews and comments.

Edit: got this from play to confirm:
Doom III
Due for release on 13/08/2004
our price: £27.99 Delivered
RRP: £44.99 You save: £17.00 (37%)

[Nomadd]

re: "right for one, this should be removed, secondly you should of waited till the 13th so we all had a chance to play it, and 3 stop with the spoilers, why spoil the game for those that have not seen or played it as yet. Personally huge ass red censored stamp over the post"

Sorry if this sounds rude - and look at my post history on this site to prove that generally I'm not rude - but that's a dumbass post. I haven't spolied the game for anyone, you included. The post clearly states SPOILERS before I got into ANY gameplay or plot elements. So why should it be removed? Because it's not what YOU wanted to hear? That's the exact reason I did post my opinions: as I said in my feedback, this game is being hyped waaayyyy beyond it's gameplay. Shouldn't people be warned about that? Or would you rather just go and buy it, and then come back here to bitch about having been ripped off?

Oh, BTW, heres a section from the links page on VE3D today (and ALL the other major gaming news sites look EXACTLY the same):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Game Reviews 12:19 am - Apache - games: general news (9 comments)

* Doom 3 - Computer Games.ro - 91% (second review)
* Doom 3 - My Guys Games - 10/10
* Doom 3 - ActionTrip - 90%
* Doom 3 - Gamespot - 8.5/10
* Doom 3 - 1Up - 100%
* Doom 3 - Gamemecha - 9/10
* Doom 3 - UGO - A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So you are saying you never visit anywhere else on the web but Hexus? You are saying if I hadn't posted a thread you DIDN'T have to read, you still wouldn't have found/seen ANY Doom3 feedback anywhere? Get real. Think before you comment.

re: "If he purchased it legally i don't see why this thread should be removed."

Correct. Thankyou.

re: "I think the point of his thread is to stop people buying it."

Er, and what would be in that for me?

No, my aim was to get *sensible, mature* people to realise this games many major shortcomings, and make up their own minds whether it really justifies 9/10 ot 10/10. In gameplay terms, it just doesn't. Sure, if I was an ATI fanboy who wanted everyone to hold of until HL2, that might be some childish reason: except I own an Nvidia 6800GT! :-)

re: "I just refuse to read it until I play the game and make my own judgements It's almost like you are waiting in queue for the movie at the cinema and someone comes up to you and tells you the plot, the story, the ending"

So no-one elses opinion matters other than yours, right? And your anaolgy of cinema is as stupid as your first post: once AGAIN, before I said ANYTHING about the story or plotline I clearly said SPOILERS. Miss that bit?

re: "Oh your first comment about it being dark, its supposed to thats what the flash light is for in the game"

Wow, you don't say! I must have missed reading that during the last 4 years worth of reading Doom3 development posts. <sacarsm mode off>

re: "this is possibly what iD have gone for, so you can't quite see whats where etc."

Because nothing IS there. Next time, try and read - and then comment upon - ALL that I said. The game is pitch black, all the way through. There is no suspense, as that's not the way the game is constructed (unlike AvP, which did and excellent job). The monsters are all at fixed, predictable spawn points: Oh, look, some health and ammo - I think I'll pick it up... Bingo, the empty room you've been in for the last 10 minutes spawns monsters, one in front of you (in the darkness) one behind you (yet again), and more just falling out of hidden panels in the walls. That's great design, is it? No, it's stupid, lazy design. And it's that level of stupid design you'll spend 20 hours wading through.

dkmech: thankyou for the considered, sensible comments. You are quite right: darkness done PARTIALLY and used CLEVERLY can add a huge amount to a game. Doom 3 has no proper compelling game design or ethic, hence the utter darkness being used EVERYWHERE, with constantly spawning, and spawing, and spawing, and respawning monsters in the most unbelievable of places, as a cheap trick. When you've shot around 50 spiders in wave, after wave, after wave, just because you picked up a health pack, you do get sick of it.

Anyway, I'm sure some people will just love it. Me, I utterly hated it. And that's just plain sad, seem as though I still hold huge fond memories of Doom1/2 - and a few thousand add-on levels for them - burning away 1000's of happy gameplay hours in my heart.

BTW, it's £24.99 on Amazon UK.

Nomadd

[walibe]

Err Calm down, it was a joke the guy made, read the answers to your posts and you will see!

I agree its not a 90% game although you don't give it enough credit. Some of the spawning points are well done, and at the beginning are completely unexpected, for example when your walking calmly around a office and are then suddenly sprung on.

Secondly I have never, ever been scared by a game but this one I had to take a break from every hour or so I was so on edge. Yes it lacks a good story but the atmosphere for the most part is superb, the flash light thing whilst annoying isn't a huge draw back to be honest.

The game does get very boring later on as you have indeed seen it all after the first couple of levels. There is no FarCry "oh my god will you just look at that" moments where you find yourself admiring the scenary.

The graphics are good but not superb and no level of textures will fix the poor models (check out some of the odd shaped heads on cut scenes).

I too am praying HL2 ships and the story and game play match the levels of what we are waiting for.

[TiG]

Well nice post Nomadd, i'm certainly not looking forward to Doom3 or HL2, i'm pretty bored with the unrelenting hype about them both. Good graphics doesn't make a good game, i really do wish people would stop wasting all the time on a decent graphics engine and actually work on AI or level design or somethign that makes the game enjoyable.

Especially considuring this is really a single player game it should be fun, if it isn't then what is the point?.

The original HL emersed you in the game, and always gave me the feeling that i was going somewhere i shouldn't, THE absolutely AWESOME feeling when you came across the marines working as a team the first time. YEAH I'm saved, OH crap i'm being shot at ....

Maybe i've just played too many of these games and younger people will have the same belief that this is a good game just like i think HL is a good game....

TiG

[Pete]

i reckon most of this comes down to hype,
people have been expecting so much for so long, or at least i have
in screenshots the graphics look incredible but when i saw some in game shots peeps had taken i was horrified, they look rubbish compared to what i thought?
Nomadd was indeed right to post this, hes saved me around 30 quid i reckon
dont say its just his opinion, because he has sed what he found bad about the game in a very honest post, if someone who loves the game posts about whats good i might change my mind, but for now i think ill be missing out on d3

lets just hope hl2 isnt as bad as this compared to the hype, but from vids and screens i dont think it will be, mabye it will be a tad on the dark side as well but well have to wait and see i guess....

[yamangman]

Yup nomad, I have to say I agree, I mean, you must've REALLY hated it. I mean, you played it through to completion before it's release date for chrissakes

[Nomadd]

re: "Yup nomad, I have to say I agree, I mean, you must've REALLY hated it. I mean, you played it through to completion before it's release date for chrissakes"

It's out in the US. We have in excess of 20,000 staff in the US, shipping back and forth on a daily basis. And as long as I paid for it, that's all that matters.

As regards it being 'so good I played it to the end'. Sorry, but no. I waded through the first 2/3 thirds of it, and then got so bored to death with it I checked to see if the God Mode cheat still worked. It did, so I left it switched on so that I could quickly get through to the end to see if it got any better - or whether I'd just be wasting even more time. Unfortunately, the game sucks all the way to the end.

Sorry if I seem a bit 'ranty' on all of this, it's just that I can't believe that a game with so many fundamental gameplay shortcomings is getting such high review scores. If this wasn't an ID game, then those scores would be much more critical, and far lower - although even then I guess a few people might still not be able to look beyond the screenshots! :-)

Nomadd

[Nick]

Tho I'm INCREDIBLY tempted, I'm NOT going to read this thread.... as I'm in the middle of writing a review of it right now and I don't want to have any preconceptions.

Suffice to say that I WILL give an honest review though, based on my own taste and experience, and if you want to know what that does to a game, check out my Halo review in the Hexus review archives..... I STILL don't get why people love that steaming pile of poop.

[Nomadd]

re: "I STILL don't get why people love that steaming pile of poop."

OMG, a man after my own heart. I bought an XBOX on the day of it's release, along with a copy of Halo. I should have had a picture of an ass stuck to my head, as I really was a fool for believing the hype. Halo was OK (in fact, quite good) in places, but very poor in others. It was one of the few times I totally disagreed with Edge, as they gave it 10/10, which quite frankly was a stupid score.

Doom3? I'll be very interested to hear your views. As long as you can stop yourself being swayed by the hype and graphics, and concentrate on the gameplay, then your comments should stand the test of time. Better to look an ass now, yet become a wise man in 6 months time (when all the hype has died down) rather than the other way around. :-)

Nomadd