Now, I may not have been around during the war time, however I think that everyone should respect the fact that things are as they are today due to the brave people back in the day.
Everyone, hold your poppies high (no digging for last years) and remember. Even if everyone around you doesn't, hold your own silence.
For the UK, people.
/hand on chest
absolutely
VodkaOriginally Posted by Ephesians
Never forgotten.
With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.
Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres.
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.
They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
They mingle not with laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.
But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;
As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain,
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.
Last edited by tiggerai; 08-11-2007 at 08:53 AM.
Personally I always remember not the people who were killed defending us, but they people they left behind.
As a side note has anyone noticed how hard it is to find a poppy seller these days? The last few years I've had to make an online donation...
Go to any shopping centre, they're out in force at the moment!!
And yes, we've got to remember that this day is for also remembering and giving thanks for all those people who are still with us, but for their sacrifice need our support.
Most of the fellas that did the poppy selling are either passed away or too old to get out in this cold weather.
The British Legion are now turning to more recent veterans (Falklands/Gulf) to help out.
I have been selling them in my local town in the evenings to help out.
You must remember.......although the price the guys in the 1st & 2nd World War was huge, rememberance is for ALL fallen comrades since.
We must think of everyone at the 11th hour.
Found one in my local Sainsbury's, thank goodness. We have a boxful at reception at work, and yes, you can donate online, but I really do prefer to buy from a person if poss.
4 thus far - always, always, always lose them.
The cadet guys tend to help out on saturday as well.
But before that, yeah, they are hard to find. I had to look for 3 days to find some.
Read in the local paper that a WHSmith's refused to help with the appeal, because "they aren't a connected charity". That is just bloody ridiculous, if you ask me.
We have them at work, in the pub, door to door in the village, and 4 lots of collectors in the town. I will be down the war memorial on Sunday paying my respects.
I have been prompting my old man to do the genealogy thing as it's something he has been meaning to do for a long time. He got started about 18 months ago and we can trace some of our ancestors back to around 1610 or so.
The bloke that sticks out most is a man named William Allen who was my Great Grandfather. He was born in October 1879 and joined the Scots guards at 16 and fought in 7 campaigns in the Boer War earning the Queens South Africa medal with 7 clasps (iirc). He came home in 1902 (departed SA 13.9.02 - we have some records on cd) and I think he left the army in 1903 or 4 and started work on the railways.
He re-enlisted on the 5th of May 1914 (before the first world war started). He was married with 4 children, the youngest aged 2. He was 34. (same age as me). We don't know why he re-enlisted, but we suspect that he wanted to get in because the cut-off age was 35 ( no-doubt a man of his experience would have been welcomed).
He joined the 3rd Battalion, City of London Regiment, Royal Fusiliers, Territorial Force. They did their training and he was sent to Malta to join up with the Indian Army where the 1/3rd Londoners TF joined the Meerut division. After about a month they shipped to Marseilles and found themselves at a place called Neuve Chapelle in February.
A few weeks later the Battle of Neuve Chapelle commenced on the 10th March 1915. This was the first offensive battle that the British undertook from static positions (i.e trenches), it was also the first battle where air reconnaissance was used to map opposing positions and the first time a "rolling barrage" of artillery fire was used. It could arguably be the first time men went over the top. Of 40,000 that took part 12,000 were killed or wounded.
The Londoners were in reserve and we know that 'C' and 'D' companies went "over the top" to support the 1/39th Gharwali rifles and the 1st Seaforth (highland brigade) or the far most right flank. (we think he was in 'B' company who took part later on).
On the night of the 12th (we think the London Gazette has it wrongly reported due to the army ) he won the Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) for the following;
He was promoted from Cpl to acting Sergeant on the 12/3/15. The quite remarkable thing is that myself and my dad have managed to locate the position of this action, of destroying the bridges, to within 150 yards square, by using all the WW1 trench maps / google maps etc / the war diaries of the Meerut division, Gharwal Brigade and the 1/3rd Londoners. We will visit next year. What is really crazy is this little anecdote;SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 3 JUNE, 1915. 5333
For conspicuous gallantry, ability, and resource, at Neuve Chapelle from 10th to 13th March, 1915. He
was in charge of a reconnoitring patrol on the night of 13th March and discovered 3 small bridges laid
down by the enemy for their advance; these he removed, which resulted in the Germans being held
up in their attack, and our machine guns being turned upon them.
My dad thought that his grandfather's medals had been buried with his grandmother. After talking to him a bit I persuaded him to get back in touch with his only remaining brother, John, who was the eldest and only other remainder of the siblings. (My dad's side of the family has always had arguments etc). Anyway he found him easily after a 14 year absence) and had a quick phone call and we decided go to see him and find out a bit more about my great grandfather. He tells my dad that a bloke called Billy Wheeler (who I think was the son of one of my great grandfather's daughters) has got the medals and that he had emigrated to Australia. Well my dad remembered Billy from his childhood and decided to see if he could find him. I prompted him and said it would be easy cos Oz have lots of recent records, but we were amazed to see (through the power of the internet) that his assisted passage to Oz in the mid-sixties was recorded, available on the wibbly web, and managed to narrow him down to two addresses and phone numbers, all in about 1hr!.
So my dad phoned the first number and got an answer message saying "hello this is Bill and Mary" and knew that it was the right one (because he had a copy of the marriage certificate).
About 30 mins later this bloke returns my dad's call. He is amazed because this is the first time in 43 years that he has had any contact from family in the UK. So my dad talks about my great grandfather and before he can ask for info Billy blurts out, (paraphrasing) "Oh Mate, he was one hell of a bloke. Did ya know he was put up for the VC during the battle of Neuve Chapelle, but his commanding officer was killed before the citation could be verified? He lead a night patrol and destroyed seven German bridges, which the Germans were using for an attack then next morning.. When my mum was at school she had to stand up in front of the whole school and tell them what had happened. He was a hero." A great anecdote and we will never know whether he was or wasn't put up for the VC.
Many men were and got it, many deserving didn't and many who were awarded it didn't survive the action or the war.
So what else happened? Well we followed the progress of the 1/3rd, City of London, TF, through the battles at Auber's Ridge and Festubert (where a young Winston Churchill observed the battle from a church spire). He survived these, but whilst on a trench work patrol on the 22nd June 1915 he was wounded. In the area of Farm corner - trench maps had lots of names and alot of these were English street names etc . We have this down to a range as denoted by the trench maps and surviving war diaries of the Gharwal Brigade. We can even find the rough location on google maps and it is south, south east fo Neuve Chapelle.
The anecdote that all the remaining family members have heard is that after a shell had landed Sgt Allen had been hit by shrapnel and one of his mates shouted, "Bill's not taking another one" and promptly dived on top of him. The next shell exploded and took this poor bloke's rear end off. According to my dad's brother John, a Gurkha named Tupta picked him up and carried him back to the command post/aid station. He still recalls his grandfather pushing him around in a child's car saying, "Go, go faster, faster, Johnny Tupta".
The war diaries show that 3 men were killed by enemy shelling that day and one wounded all in the same incident so we are fairly sure it was my great grandfather and his mates. He spent the next month in France recovering from the shrapnel wound to his stomach before being returned to Blighty. He was discharged as unfit for service almost a year later.
I wished I had known that my Great Grandfather had fought in the Great War when I was studying Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Owen as part of my English GCSE. I wish I had known who "Tupta" was. ( we are looking into the other 3 that were killed in the incident but it's hard going). I now know that two of my cousins are in the Army and that the younger of the two (who was on leave when we went to see my uncle John - his sons - to find out about my great grandfather) was going back to Basra in November.
Whether you agree or disagree with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan do not forget the Tommy. Many, who were just like you and I, paid the ultimate sacrifice in past wars to ensure that you and I are free to type as we do. Many more volunteers (just like my great grandfather who had young children) do our government's bidding and the sacrifice they and their families give should not go unnoticed nor unacknowledged or unsupported.
I can now wear my poppy with a personal connection to a man that served in the Great War. Some of his fellows that did not come back. This will be the first time I can stand at a memorial and think of the men that served with my great grandfather. These men were from all walks of life but they were not just from the UK. The Gurkhas and the Sikhs that my ancestor fought with suffered the same hardships, suffered the same fate, carried themselves with heads held high, never shirked and were as ferocious and professional as their reputation.
We owe them all a debt.
"Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.
Bazzlad (09-11-2007),MaddAussie (09-11-2007)
That was a bloody good read, thank you Iranu.
Agreed.
Are white poppies sold in town centres? I've never seen one.
Excellent thread
In Flanders Fields
John McCrae, May 1915
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep,
though poppies grow
In Flanders fields
I can't resist the Guy selling poppies outside of Sainsbury, I always give him the last of my changeI have around half a dozen adorning my Car interior now with Piglet and PG Tips Monkey cluting them between them
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