community police - what power do they actually have

[ikonia]

While in my local chipstop at the weekend waiting for my cod to be battered I saw an altercation between a gang of youths and a community police officer.

The youths where doing nothing actually wrong, but looked a bit shifty and where loitering.

The comminity police officers (2) asked them to move on, to which they replied. "No, we are waiting to meet the rest of our friends" Now they where a bit loud, about this as all teenagers are, but other than that no problem.

The police officer asked them for their names, now this is where it became interesting for me.......
Based on my earlier posts I've made it clear that I believe if a police officer stops you and asks for details/search etc, you should comply - they are the law, but the community police officers made this interesting for me to listen while waiting for my fishy supper.

The youths asked "why"
The officer "because I asked you to move on and you said no, I'm reporting you"
The youths "you can't just tell us to move from a public place, we've arranged to meet our friends here and if we move they won't see us"
The officer "names please !"
the youths "no I don't think so"
the officer "names please or I'll have no choice but to arrest you"
The youths "I don't think so - you can't arrest us"
the officer "I can and I will, don't get lippy"
the youths "what ever plastic copper, you can't do jack, go on then arrest me, do it, go on!"
the officer "I will"
the youths "go on then, I'm waiting, slap the cuffs on, oh no wait you can't, you don't have any because YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING !"
the community officer then calls for "official" backup.
The police turn up, and ask whats going on. The community officer explains to the police, the police officer then starts talking to the youths, and as he's doing so, 2 more youths turn up and the youths shout at the community officers "see I told you we where just waiting for our friends, we are going now !"

The policeman gets back in his car and the event is done.


Questions.

1.) what power does the community police officer have ?
2.) it would appear none
3.) what is their pupose ?
4.) do they add any value ? if so how ? all I saw was 2 salleried officers out on the beat with no power to do anything but divert police resources as they can't deal with anything themselves.

I'm sure there is more to it than this, and I'm not condoning the youths behaviour but while my fish was frying it got me thinking about this.

[DavidM]

<snip>

[wombar]

They have no powers whatsoever to my knowledge, they're just there to be seen and do the stuff that most official police officers don't want to do. They don't even carry cuffs or CS gas as I believe they're not allowed to arrest anyone. I got speaking to a CPSO at a party a few months ago and he told me that they can't do anything other than call for a "proper" policeman.

Unfortunately, many "yoofs" know this and give them even less respect than the normal police. However, the training course for a PCSO is relatively basic compared to the full course that full police officers have to go through so I personally agree that their powers should be very limited.

It's pretty decent money from what I recall, but you wouldn't catch me doing it because whilst I would treat one with respect, I know there are a few of them out there who think they are full police officers and treat the general public with nothing but contempt.

[Moby-Dick]

even more specific info a few links down:

here

one of whish is 'Power to Require Name and Address for Antisocial Behaviour' which is what I'd guess the PCSO had in mind. Also 'Power to Disperse Groups and remove persons under 16 to their place of residence'

As I understand it they have might tighter guidlines on use of resonable force when detaining someone , but they still have that power in certain circumstances.

Essentially they are to do some of the Community jobs such as enforcing local bylaws , making sure kids aren't smoking (and confiscating their cigs if they do ) / drinking etc.

I'm pretty sure they cost a lot less to train than a regular beat officer and probably less in salary too

I'll see if I can get the views of a few 'real' police officers I know

[amjedm]

I'm pretty sure they cost a lot less to train than a regular beat officer and probably less in salary too

Someone at work told me that the PCSO get the same training as the Police

I confirmed this with someone I know and they said "they don't get the same training"

[kalniel]

Could use a few more of either them or the police though.. remembrance sunday? Good occasion to be even less respectful it seems - if throwing a stone through the main stained-glass window of the church during the remembrance service is anything to go by...

[UltraMagnus]

even more specific info a few links down:

here

one of whish is 'Power to Require Name and Address for Antisocial Behaviour' which is what I'd guess the PCSO had in mind. Also 'Power to Disperse Groups and remove persons under 16 to their place of residence'

As I understand it they have might tighter guidlines on use of resonable force when detaining someone , but they still have that power in certain circumstances.

Essentially they are to do some of the Community jobs such as enforcing local bylaws , making sure kids aren't smoking (and confiscating their cigs if they do ) / drinking etc.

I'm pretty sure they cost a lot less to train than a regular beat officer and probably less in salary too

I'll see if I can get the views of a few 'real' police officers I know

in other words, they can politely ask thugs to move on and then do nothing if they refuse? only politely ask for their names and get refused again??

yup, another labour policy that has no use what so ever.....

[99Flake]

Well one of my best friends is a copper and my ex was also engaged to a policeman. She was looking at becoming a PCSO and was told by the pair of them that she would get the same training and would have the same powers as a normal police officer.

This again is down the grapevine but I don't see any reason for her to make it up or for them to have wrong information.

[Gr44]

I think you are getting confused. I belive this is ( about ) right...

There are :

1) Community Support Officers

2) Special Constables

1) has next to no power as the 1st post states.

2) has all the power of a normal officer, but they don't generally get paid.

Makes no sense?

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[99Flake]

Aaah yes Special is what she was on about. Sorry, thought they were one and the same.

[schmunk]

It's pretty decent money from what I recall,

Pay for police community support officers (PCSOs) varies from force to force, usually starting at just over &#163;16,000 (although those working in London will receive more), and rising steadily as you gain experience.

Peanuts. Hence monkeys.

[wombar]

The guy I spoke to was on &#163;22k (I think, definitely over &#163;20k) which isn't great but considering he had little to no qualifications wasn't bad. I wouldn't want to do the job for that kind of money, but it's also a good way into the Police force if that's your things.

My mate who's a copper is making around &#163;30k + overtime but again, I wouldn't want to do the job for that kind of money. Judging by some of the people he meets (i.e. much of the scum in west london) I wouldn't trade for any amount of money.

[kickstart 1]

You must live near me !! We have 2 community police officers who do have all the power of a normal police officer , they just tend to cover our area. But like yourself having been witness to several events , i think the police in general have very little interest in gangs of youths. They seem to like to 'chat' to them and same as yourself i am amazed at what they can get away with saying to them! No wonder kids today arent bothered when the police turn up!

[Fraz]

Why are people so goddamn scared of a few kids? By the sounds of it, they were doing nothing wrong, other than maybe talking a bit loudly.

[YorkieBen]

gee I wonder why people are scared of gangs of kids. Because violence from gangs of youths is on the increase?

Anyway, PCSOs in some parts of the country have more power than others. With all the paperwork 'proper' coppers have to do PCSOs perform a valuable function in patrolling, presence etc as well as providing a point of contact.

The coppers I know take the mick out of them a bit but do acknowledge they perform something vital, although it should be done by proper policemen. The thing is PCSOs are not (usually) given necessary protective gear (e.g. stab vests) and they dont afaik carry batons or CS (although I've been reliably informed that a Maglite works better than a baton )

[Moby-Dick]

You must live near me !! We have 2 community police officers who do have all the power of a normal police officer , they just tend to cover our area. But like yourself having been witness to several events , i think the police in general have very little interest in gangs of youths. They seem to like to 'chat' to them and same as yourself i am amazed at what they can get away with saying to them! No wonder kids today arent bothered when the police turn up!

Community Policemen/women are not the same things as PCSO's The former is a particular assignment that you can do ( as my mate has recently started - he gets to go round south london on a mountain bike )

PCSO's are this halfway house type thing.