Had enough with this country

[Saracen]

..... Which is an absolute joke as I could probably do more damage with my belt buckle

Not if you're trying to maul someone with your belt buckle with one hand, while trying to keep your trousers from dropping round your ankles with the other hand. Unless, of course, you're trying to murder someone by getting them to die laughing.

[iranu]

Do you carry the torch and small toolkit with you wherever you go? When you go to a nightclub, for example?

There is no difference between me having it in the car and therefore "carrying" it and having it on my person. It's purely one of intention. There is also a HUGE difference between carrying it accidentally rather than with purpose into a nightclub, restaurant, swimming pool, my (non-existent) child's teacher-parent evening, scouts master class, crowded street etc. Now of course a bouncer or anyone else for that matter is not going to be able to distinguish intent from accident in those circumstances, therefore one would expect that they use their common sense and experience to remove the item and either call the police if they suspect that the carrier has committed an offence or hold the property for the client or both. They should not keep the item and throw the client out. Incidentally as said in my OP, I carried a blade (read small swiss army knife into many clubs on my travels and never had a problem. My pissy sub 3" blade was much less effective than a freshly smashed bottle which were readily available).

I'm not saying that the current hysteria regards blades is right, merely that in the circumstances the venue may well have felt that they were doing the right thing in taking the penknife away.

They were perfectly right in taking the blade away and Merlin acknowledges this because Merlin himself offered the blade to them whilst being searched. Reducing access to weapons is a good idea, it means they are less likely to be used. No one is arguing that blades, no matter what their size, should be allowed in clubs. The fact is that Merlin was searched and he realised the mistake and offered them the item. He should have been commended by the bouncer for his honesty and given a ticket for the item so that he could pick it up when he left. We are not talking machetes here and the fact they got stroppy about a reasonable question shows that they were ill trained and unreasonable. Infact I think they broke the law. Anyone with knowledge of the law as it stands able to comment?

They may well have felt you were getting shirty when you asked about picking it back up, and asked you to leave to prevent the situation escalating. Balanced view and all that.

With respect I don't see how one can take that as a balanced view. If Merlin had wanted to conceal the blade then he would have done so and is unlikely to BS here about being found out. The fact that he gave it up of his own accord is hardly the actions of someone who would carry a knife for their own protection, use, stupidity, sense of worth or whatever. I would expect any organisation to respect someone's property and return that property unless that property was illegal. How can asking for ones own property back in due course be considered "getting shirty" unless it was done in an aggressive manner? Merlin??

Of course no one out to have a good time is going to want to take a knife out clubbing with them and I suspect that everyone here, which obviously includes Merlin because of his actions, acknowledges this and supports all clubs and other venues of a zero tolerance policy to carrying knives/blades.

Yes, a 1" penknife is unlikely to be used to chop people into small bits, but it can be deemed an offensive weapon and it happens to be something that the media and police are all over at the moment.

Yep, I agree. A razor blade is all that is needed to cause some very nasty injuries.

I lived in Glasgow in the early 90's and knife crime was supposedly epidemic. I got the full monty about Glasgow being the European City of Knives as opposed to the European City of Culture. I saw the type of weapons that were handed in during the amnesty of 92-93 and the Daily Record's front page showed some horrific weapons. i.e, Knuckle dusters with 6" stabbing/serrated modern bayonet knives built in.

My own university's student union had staff on the door from Wednesday evening to Sunday night searching every person that entered for knives, including women. No one bitched, we saw it as part of our own safety. A lot of nightclubs had metal detecting arches. A sad sign of the times.

Well, you had it coming mate. Only a moron would carry a knife on him of any sort. You deserved to be kicked out of the club. You say you forgot you had it on you! Mention that to the police when they might have searched you if you were in a fight etc in the club. I wonder what they would say!!

And it's this exact sort of reaction/thinking that is so inherently stupid. Read the OP, then read it again, and then just for good measure read it a third time to understand what he said about what happened - people don't post this sort of thing for no reason. It's your kind of thinking that if followed to the logical conclusion gets the Sunday cricketer killed by armed Police because someone saw them walk across the village green on their way to the crease with a offensive cricket bat! And yes there was a recent case of a person murdering another with a cricket bat.

Jeez, with this sort of intellectual prowess around maybe it won't be long before carrying a concealed 6" penis in ones trousers becomes an offence, because it may be used as an offensive (in both senses of the word) weapon. Perhaps Koolpc only carries a 3" tiddler, but that is no excuse peoples. Potential (sexual or physical) assault with a deadly weapon is serious, regardless of how long/sharp/pointy that weapon is.

Yes a cheap shot, but I'm feeling more and more like a Dr Cox (Scrubs) each day. (Gee, now there a pun, geddit newbies? /scowl).

Actually this subject is going to allow me to tell one of my most treasured anecdotes involving Grant, a half bottle of whisky, a WPC and a bazooka. It will end the thread on a light hearted note I promise.

[Splash]

I don't believe that the acceptance of people carrying knives would lead to fear. Obviously its near impossible to predict without some sort of trial and error situation but my personal assumption is that it wouldn't. I think fear would exist whether or not we remove knives from the streets because eventually something else will replace it.

The overwhelming feeling I get from the current media coverage is that more and more young people are carrying knives because other people carry knives, and they don't want to end up in a situation where they're at a disadvantage.

Other than that this thread seems to be coming to a reasonable conclusion

[kalniel]

So actually, what we should be doing is allowing teens to buy drinks, then have a mass amnesty where they swap knifes for bottle openers?

[[GSV]Myocardial]

The overwhelming feeling I get from the current media coverage is that more and more young people are carrying knives because other people carry knives, and they don't want to end up in a situation where they're at a disadvantage.

Other than that this thread seems to be coming to a reasonable conclusion

And there lies one of the bigest problems with the whole situation. Press over coverage is probably adding more to the problem by over egging the number of people carrying knives with intent than is actually present.

The other problem as recently recognised by some think tank or other is that the police are more of a cause of the problem than a cure, bad attitudes, over zealous policing of normal citizens and lack of action towards actual crime.

I personally carry a small 1.5" penknife with me at weekends and it comes in very handy for so many small jobs, but I live in the countryside and I wouldn't tend to take it unless by mistake on a night out as I have a small utility tool in my wallet for the bottle opening. But I have had problems in clubs for carrying the utility tool:


But then again I've been refused entry to clubs for the wrong type of shoes while watching people wearing the same shoes walk right on by. Bouncers are generally ok and get on with what they are supposed to do, but some get ideas well above their station and think that to do their job they need to push people about. It's just an ego trip, but I've seen it lead to some pretty bad incidents. Quite often those bouncers are more the cause of a clubs problems and I'd imagine can cost some clubs their licences and business.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned about bouncer's having to be licenced, it makes them no better I find. And in Southend the Bouncers used to be run by the wife of a well known drug dealer, letting the dealers canvas the lines then confiscating the product and passing it back to the dealers.

[Splash]

That was me that mentioned the licensing of bouncers. I personally feel that the way it works in York... works. They're licensed by the police (security checked and everything) and if they lose their license they effectively lose their job.

[darkbob]

But then you've got to wonder how they could loose their job - get reported on by drunk people?

Pretty untouchable in my book

[Splash]

Well... if we transplant the OPs rant to York, he then goes to make a complaint which is investigated by the police. Most nightclubs have CCTV for evidence, sooooo

There's also the fact that generally if something kicks off in a nightclub the police get called in.