This is why at most chain restruants, i don't tip.

[TheAnimus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7513273.stm

Basically when someone who has ideals of socail reform, trys to pass a law to achieve their goal, they have to be very stupid to think that its not going to be ignored if it goes against the free market.

Personally I don't find it remotely surprising, pizza express and ask have been doing a similar practice for years.

[stytagm]

It's bit cheeky to use the American model (underpaid waiters topped up with tips) in the UK where the culture of tipping is (supposed to be) different.

For a couple of years now I've started paying the exact amount on my card, and leaving the tip in cash. Then you can pretty much guarantee it's going straight into your waiter's pocket (or at least the tips cup).

[Moby-Dick]

but what about places where they auto add the 10% service charge for a larger group ? I certainly dont add any extra unless the service was exceptional.

[Splash]

Yep, I pay for the meal and drinks by card, then leave a cash tip. But only when I feel it's deserved.

[Salazaar]

I just try to avoid chain restaurants altogether, I'd far rather pay a little bit extra and have a meal in a good local restaurant.

[nichomach]

For a couple of years now I've started paying the exact amount on my card, and leaving the tip in cash. Then you can pretty much guarantee it's going straight into your waiter's pocket (or at least the tips cup).

Absolutely, it's the only way. I usually do tip unless the service has been dire - wages for waiting staff are shockingly poor.

[Nick]

I remove the service charge from the bill if one has been added.

This has caused an argument twice and both times I argued that including a service charge on the bill as a non-voluntary contribution was illegal. I then baffled them by leaving a tip on the table... the point being that some restaurants will pocket the tip and NOT give it to the staff.

There's very few places that do it nowadays but you still get a few.

[Mblaster]

I just try to avoid chain restaurants altogether, I'd far rather pay a little bit extra and have a meal in a good local restaurant.

Agreed there, and I rarely leave a tip, only if I get exceptional service.

[directhex]

there are also legal and tax differences between a tip being added to the bill, and a tip being left on the table (basically, if a tip goes into a pay slip, it's taxable - if it's collected by an employee on an individual level or an employee - not manager - collects & shares all the tips, that's exempt from income tax)

[Rave]

there are also legal and tax differences between a tip being added to the bill, and a tip being left on the table (basically, if a tip goes into a pay slip, it's taxable - if it's collected by an employee on an individual level or an employee - not manager - collects & shares all the tips, that's exempt from income tax)

Ah- I worried that the wife was somehow evading tax on her cash tips. That's good to know.

I rarely eat in chain restaurants, but I'll endeavour to leave cash tips in future. Personally I always leave 10% unless the service has been poor- in which case I'll leave a very small tip. I figure that's a better way of showing my displeasure than leaving no tip at all- because if you leave nothing they might just assume you're a tight git who never tips.

[Saracen]

there are also legal and tax differences between a tip being added to the bill, and a tip being left on the table (basically, if a tip goes into a pay slip, it's taxable - if it's collected by an employee on an individual level or an employee - not manager - collects & shares all the tips, that's exempt from income tax)

Sorry, Hex, but absolutely, categorically not. Tips are taxable.

Exactly how they're taxable varies, and it has changed a bit in recent years, but they are most definitely taxable.

There are a whole series of different provisions relating to both tips and service charges, and re: service charges, differing provisions based on whether they're mandatory or voluntary service charges.

For tips, if the tip is left to be dealt with by the restaurant, and the "employer" passes tips on to the employee, then they MUST go through the PAYE system, and you'll not only pay Income Tax on them but they're subject to NI as well.

If a tip is given directly to the employee, i.e. it meets either of :-

- it is not allocated, directly or indirectly, to the employee by the employer
- it is not paid, directly or indirectly, to the employee by the employer and does not come from money previously paid to the employer by the customer

then it's not subject to NI.

So .... if you give the tip directly to the server, or if you leave it on the table for the server, and it doesn't to to the restaurant to be divvied up, then :-

- the employee will not pay NO on it.
- it does not go through the employer's PAYE system
- the employee MUST account for it to HMRC, i.e. declare it and pay tax on it.



Oh, and in generasl, re: service charges, it it is a genuinely voluntary service charge, i.e, one suggested by the restaurant IF you arehappy with the service, then it's treated for tax purposes as a gratuity.

If, however, it's a mandatory service charge, then it's treated as part of the basic cost of provision of service, and is also VAT-able. So, when you leave a mandatory service charge payment, the government gets the VAT element of it.

If, therefore, a customer wants to leave a service charge and for it to go to the person that actually provided the service, then :-

- pay it as a gratuity not a service charge.
- pay it DIRECT to those you intend it for. If the restaurant s;plits it up, it's subject to NI and the government gets another slice.


Assuming everyone obeys the law, everyone pays income tax on tips (providing they earn enough to be paying tax). So the government get a slice.

Pay it via the restaurant so that they allocate it among staff and pay it on and the government gets a NI slice of it as well.

Pay it via a mandatory service charge and the government gets the VAT element, and out of what's left, they get an slice via NI and another slice via Income Tax.

[Saracen]

Ah- I worried that the wife was somehow evading tax on her cash tips. That's good to know.

She is I'm afraid, if he's not declaring them, unless she earns sufficiently little as to not be liable for income tax, which as a part-time job may be the case.

[TheAnimus]

i was about to say how the hell can you not be taxed on tips?!

imagine if they didn't tax people on bonuses.

[lodore]

i dont agree with adding a service charge to the normal bill. its just like taxi drivers. they think you should give them a tip no matter what the service was like.
all tips should be voluntary. you shouldnt have to give tips but you will if you thought the service was good.

[Kumagoro]

I hate tipping and I hate service charge even more. You shouldn't have to give tips to
get good service and even with tips you mostly don't get good service anyway.

[funke_munke]

Stay in your house and cook yourself then aye?!

I don't believe in tipping anyway... And I wait on people all the time!