Ebay, non paying bidders leaving neg feedback.

[noTHINGface]

Not all sellers abused the system. But I'm sorry to say that so many did that they ruined it for all, and now all sellers are paying for it.

QFT - Remember when Ebay was honest, people played by the rules on the whole and the experience wasn't such the clusterflick that is now. I gave up on Ebay years ago. Like pretty much everything, internet or otherwise, once real money became involved it all turned to pash...

[Gordy]

I absolutely disagree.

If feedback is to represent the party's happiness with the performance of the other party, then the seller should be lewaving feedback if they got prompt paymemt as promised, because that is what the buyer promised .... to pay, and to do so within the terms of the sale.

It should not be contingent on the buyer being happy with the goods, because that's the seller's side.


As it is, the vast majority of sellers have it largely their own way, in that the buyer has to pay and then wait, and hope, the goods match the description, or indeed, even that they show up at all. So the buyer has to send off the money on trust, but how many sellers send of the goods on trust, before receiving the money? Precious few.

If feedback is going to be honest, it should reflect whether each party did what they agreed to do, and as a buyer, what I agreed to do is to pay. If I do, and do so promptly, I deserve feedback to reflect that, and not to only get it when the seller knows I'm not going to complain about the goods. If the goods are what was promised, and show up on time, I'm not going to leave bad feedback.

Of course, some on both sides will abuse the system. But that's a risk both parties take.
For a seller to refuse to leave feedback until the buyer does is to hold the buyer to ransom over the feedback. It's supposed to be over the transaction, and the buyer's part of the transaction is to pay on time.

If the seller keeps to his end of the bargain, and supplies goods as described, and on time, they should get positive. If they don't do that, I will explain my reasons for unhappiness with what was supplied and await their response. If the situation is resolved, they still get positive feedback. But far too many sellers weren't doing that. They weren't rating whether the buyer kept to his end and paid, but were using it as a lever to force positive feedback, or at least, avoid negative. That is not what it was supposed to be for, and presumably, why eBay changed it. If that's how it's used, it might as well not exist, because heavy sellers can absorb a hit or two, whereas negative feedback can wreck a buyer's ratings, especially if they only buy from time to time.

Not all sellers abused the system. But I'm sorry to say that so many did that they ruined it for all, and now all sellers are paying for it.

If sellers want to avoid negative feedback from reasonable people, provide a good service. Then, you'll get good feedback. And that, after all, is the point of it.

But yes, eBay need a system to react when buyers are abusing it, as certainly appears to be the case with Gordy's situation.

Saracen whilst I agree on some points the reason most people don't give instant feedback is that paying for the item is only the first part of the buyers responsibility.

If for example the buyer pretends the item didn't arrive and leaves you negative feedback despite you having proof of delivery. That would be a situation whereby you could then leave negative feedback as the seller warning others of the behaviour. If you left them feedback for paying quickly already you couldn't.

[Whiternoise]

Hey, I've got low feedback!

Heh, that may be true, but if you're selling or buying something that's over say, £50-100 (like a camera) are you going to trust the guy with 4 or the guy with 80 feedback points?

I was having a look at D80's and two of my watched items got relisted due to - presumably - the same scammer. Now the bids have got notices saying that they won't accept payment from anyone with under 10 points (not "officially" but i guess it's a small deterrent).

Saracen, completely agree with you. I think the seller should ALWAYS leave you feedback first.

Their feedback is simply to say that you paid promptly (what else can they say? besides that you didn't send them messages of abuse?). Whether they send you a laptop that works or one that you wouldn't use as a doorpost, if you've kept your end of the deal - you get your positive feedback (really it should be straight away). Why wait for either a delivery receipt or for feedback for yourself? There's no reason to not leave feedback promptly assuming the buyer paid and everything checked out.

As a buyer it's another matter. You leave feedback after you get the item and it is with YOUR feedback that any complaints get lodged - after you've contacted the company first and are sure that they're not going to rectify the situation.

I think sellers should be allowed neutrals though, for slow paying buyers and so on. That way they can't "damage" your rep by unfair negging but can still say "oh well this guy took two weeks to pay after the auction requested next day".

@Gordy, in the event of the situation above: If the buyer pretends the item didn't arrive, then it would surely be their prerogative to go via eBay to complain to them that the seller has breached contract - they're being fairly stupid just to negative without actually trying to claim their money back (which you could simply refute). You would then produce the proof of delivery. You'd get the opportunity to respond to the feedback as necessary, some consolation, but not much i admit.

[4444405]

I have been with eBay for ten years and I like their feedback policy.
Sellers should leave postive feedback based on speed of payment. THAT IS ALL
Buyers should leave feedback if they are satisifed with the transaction and it matches the description and if it was received within a reasonable amount of time. Again that is ALL that is relevant.
Any issues that happen beyond this need to be reported to eBay and let them deal with non paying bidders etc. If you receive -ve feedback with no reason then simply report to eBay...there are humans at the end of a phone line too and they will listen.
The system is Fair...and people who abuse that will get their cum-uppance one day!

[Saracen]

Saracen whilst I agree on some points the reason most people don't give instant feedback is that paying for the item is only the first part of the buyers responsibility.

If for example the buyer pretends the item didn't arrive and leaves you negative feedback despite you having proof of delivery. That would be a situation whereby you could then leave negative feedback as the seller warning others of the behaviour. If you left them feedback for paying quickly already you couldn't.

I don't agree.

That's abusing the system, certainly grounds for a dispute resolution process and, arguably, fraudulent. It's why I said

But yes, eBay need a system to react when buyers are abusing it, ....

What it comes down to is that someone has to leave feedback first. Why should it be the buyer who, in my case, pays immediately and usually within minutes of a winning bid? It's tantamount to the seller saying I have to trust him to leave positive but he won't trust me to do likewise. And it's tantamount to blackmail.

[sammie377]

I have been with eBay for ten years and I like their feedback policy.
Sellers should leave postive feedback based on speed of payment. THAT IS ALL
Buyers should leave feedback if they are satisifed with the transaction and it matches the description and if it was received within a reasonable amount of time. Again that is ALL that is relevant.
Any issues that happen beyond this need to be reported to eBay and let them deal with non paying bidders etc. If you receive -ve feedback with no reason then simply report to eBay...there are humans at the end of a phone line too and they will listen.
The system is Fair...and people who abuse that will get their cum-uppance one day!

EBay don't care one little bit, I had an account which would have been 10 years this year I joined in November 1999, I had been buying and selling and had positive feedback of nearly a 1000 one morning I woke up and found £800,000 worth of bids on cars and motorcycles one of them a Ferrari Enzo, I contacted E Bay for help before they responded I had bought a Porshe and 2 motorcycles, another guy paid £3,000 more for a Porsche that was run up using my account, E Bay did absolutely nothing, my little business was ruined in one day 7 years worth of good work wrecked in one day, I wound up having 27 negative feedback on the trot, E Bay suggested I contact the Police and did absolutely nothing the guy who bought the Porsche lost £3,000 and I could do nothing about it.

I left E bay owing my fee's and Pay Pal fee's total amount of less than £20 but it made me feel better, if E Bay was the only place in the world I could buy something I would go without the whole system is open to corruption and just as long as E Bay get paid they don't give a dam.

[Fraz]

What it comes down to is that someone has to leave feedback first.

Not true. It would be trivial to arrange it such that only when both parties have left feedback does the feedback become visible.

[MadduckUK]

would be like that gameshow where both people have to decide whether to share or keep it all

[Whiternoise]

Not true. It would be trivial to arrange it such that only when both parties have left feedback does the feedback become visible.

Arguably that would be a step backwards, what happens if a buyer negs the seller but the seller doesn't rate the buyer?

The negative is covered up. Not good!

[Gordy]

You could have it so if they hadn't left the feedback after say a set period days it would become visible.

Downside to that is if someone did a lot of fraudulent activity it would take longer to find out.

[Fraz]

Arguably that would be a step backwards, what happens if a buyer negs the seller but the seller doesn't rate the buyer?

The negative is covered up. Not good!

Good point - but as Gordy says, have some small time limit where both parties have to complete their feedback before it becomes visible, or lose their right to give feedback to the other.

I dunno why I'm discussing this - I have no clue about Ebay. Frankly, the best advice I can give is never to use the stupid site in the first place.

[sammie377]

Good point - but as Gordy says, have some small time limit where both parties have to complete their feedback before it becomes visible, or lose their right to give feedback to the other.

I dunno why I'm discussing this - I have no clue about Ebay. Frankly, the best advice I can give is never to use the stupid site in the first place.

Good advice I wish I thought about it more before I wasted 7 years building up quality feedback.
Plus along the way I had quite a few missing items I sent that were not recieved which now seems strange because I now work for a company sending things out and we do around 400 items a day and only about 1 a month goes missing mostly none.

I think without upsetting the good people that it open to everyone and unfortunately not everyone is like us.

[x2o]

Problem with ebay is if you get negative feedback it takes such a long time to get rid of it I had one negative comment from someone who never even contacted me and I've only just cleared it I think it's took over 4 years though lol.

All 97 out of 98 comments where positive besides.

At the end of the day with all these types of site you have to take the good with the bad.

[Gordy]

UPDATE

Well I've just got an email back from ebay and its good news. They have looked into my request and said the following.

"Having checked on our database, I am pleased to inform you that the
feedback comment you identified fits one of our feedback removal
criteria, I will remove it."

"The communication and comments left by the buyer on the unpaid item
case in the Resolution Centre undermine the integrity of both the unpaid
item process and the eBay Feedback system."

Great news, the feedback has already been removed and my score is back up to 100%. Now I get the satisfaction of leaving them negative feedback yay!

[x2o]

UPDATE

Well I've just got an email back from ebay and its good news. They have looked into my request and said the following.

"Having checked on our database, I am pleased to inform you that the
feedback comment you identified fits one of our feedback removal
criteria, I will remove it."

"The communication and comments left by the buyer on the unpaid item
case in the Resolution Centre undermine the integrity of both the unpaid
item process and the eBay Feedback system."

Great news, the feedback has already been removed and my score is back up to 100%. Now I get the satisfaction of leaving them negative feedback yay!

Well done

[Zak33]

Well done Gordy... that's a minor, but critical victory.

I'm selling on ebay, and tbh, it's harder than hard. Getting people to even reply when they win stuff is like drawing teeth, and then it all gets harder....