Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel

[AD-15]

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson;
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness" - Albert Einstein;
"Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots" - Barbara Ehrenreich;
"Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit" - Emma Goldman

I can think of no better way to express my disgust with the idea that has absorbed so many fools today. Patriotism is dangerous, and has ruined mankind.

When will people open their eyes? It's so sad to see people cling to the silly notion of patriotism, and indeed, nationalism. It is the favourite ideaology for those who are greedy, ignorant, and lacking brains.

Why is it OK to put someone into a group simply because of the place he was born? There is so much in the world, but the patriot closes his eyes to anything that does not happen in his 'country'. It has tore humans apart. How many people have died as a result of this devilish attitude patriots posess? If they were not killed by the patriot's guns, they are killed by his negligence.

Why can't these people understand we all have a responsibility for each other? We're all living on the same planet, and history has taught us again and again that one person's problem can be the rest of the world's problem. Look at the situation in the Middle East. Because of patriotism, the desire to belong to a 'nation', millions of people are suffering, and so many have died. And someone 6000 miles away in a bus on the way to work in London suffers as a result of the world's refusal to care.

Patriots are incredibly self-absorbed. They cannot appreciate truly what they have. Because of their ignorance, children starve to death in Africa. Why are people incapable of giving a little of what they have for the less fortunate?

I wonder how the patriot would feel if he was born in Darfur. Would he still proclaim his pride for his 'country' when his brother starves to death and his sister is raped by the militia?

This idea of "my country first" is pathetic and is nothing more than the proclamation of a low-life. If only people would have a little more intelligence. What ever happened to thinking?

Patriots follow the idea mindlessly. This is a fact. Where is the justification in it? As for the justification in how patriotism is indeed for low-lifes and those incapable of intellectual thought, you only have to look at what is happening in the world. The evidence is everywhere. Patriotism is very childish indeed. I wish more intelligent people could take power.

I can't believe how people are so blind to the problems patriotism cause.

[Andeh13]

British and proud! Nout wrong with being proud of the country ones from. As long as you don't turn silly about it & utilise a bit of common sense here and there there is nothing wrong with it at all!

edit; What about The World Cup, Eurovision etc?

[TooNice]

Based on some of the example you've given, I think that you are confusing patriotism with fanaticism or something else. You've written an emotionally charged post, but I find most of the points put forward do not make much sense. And that's coming from someone who would most likely fail any test of patriotism, defined as 'love for or devotion to one's country' (most common definition). I'll make a point by point post later if no one else beat me to it, but for now, I'll just quote one sentence:

I wonder how the patriot would feel if he was born in Darfur. Would he still proclaim his pride for his 'country' when his brother starves to death and his sister is raped by the militia?

I am not entirely sure what the argument is here. The logical answer to that, and the one you are probably expecting is 'no'. But so what? It would only be hypocritical if they had claim that one must love one's country no matter what. I severely doubt this is what patriots are saying.

To me, the most obvious reason why one would love/be proud of one's country, is the same as why one would love/be proud of one's parent/partner etc. Why do you think that most people love their parents? I reckon that it's because good parents raise their children, care for them etc. As for pride, perhaps they have done things they can be proud of (perhaps they are a doctor, fireman, policeman). But for abusive parents, no, I do not think that a child would have much love for such parents. Similar story with countries. If a country (government) show care for it's people, are as a whole relatively benevolent (you are not going to find perfection anywhere, even in the case of a loving parents - and I'd say that it's easier to raise a few child than please millions), then I see it as a valid reason as to why someone may love/be proud of his/her country. Or maybe people are proud that somehow their country has some of the cleanest air because they are somehow more environmentally conscious than average. Don't see a problem with that.

Basically, you seem to imply that 'patriots' are devoted/love their country unconditionally (and somehow that causes children to starve in Africa :/). It might sometime be the case, but it's certainly not part of the definition. I say that this devotion can also come from the good one perceive regarding one's country, and is about as unconditional as marriages these days.

[Knoxville]

To be apt in quotation is a splendid and dangerous gift. Splendid, because it ornaments a mans speech with other mens jewels; dangerous, for the same reason.

Robertson Davies

[Blitzen]

Did it take long to copy and paste that opening post?

[CaseyV9]

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson;
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness" - Albert Einstein;
"Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots" - Barbara Ehrenreich;
"Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit" - Emma Goldman

I can think of no better way to express my disgust with the idea that has absorbed so many fools today. Patriotism is dangerous, and has ruined mankind.

When will people open their eyes? It's so sad to see people cling to the silly notion of patriotism, and indeed, nationalism. It is the favourite ideaology for those who are greedy, ignorant, and lacking brains.

Why is it OK to put someone into a group simply because of the place he was born? There is so much in the world, but the patriot closes his eyes to anything that does not happen in his 'country'. It has tore humans apart. How many people have died as a result of this devilish attitude patriots posess? If they were not killed by the patriot's guns, they are killed by his negligence.

Why can't these people understand we all have a responsibility for each other? We're all living on the same planet, and history has taught us again and again that one person's problem can be the rest of the world's problem. Look at the situation in the Middle East. Because of patriotism, the desire to belong to a 'nation', millions of people are suffering, and so many have died. And someone 6000 miles away in a bus on the way to work in London suffers as a result of the world's refusal to care.

Patriots are incredibly self-absorbed. They cannot appreciate truly what they have. Because of their ignorance, children starve to death in Africa. Why are people incapable of giving a little of what they have for the less fortunate?

I wonder how the patriot would feel if he was born in Darfur. Would he still proclaim his pride for his 'country' when his brother starves to death and his sister is raped by the militia?

This idea of "my country first" is pathetic and is nothing more than the proclamation of a low-life. If only people would have a little more intelligence. What ever happened to thinking?

Patriots follow the idea mindlessly. This is a fact. Where is the justification in it? As for the justification in how patriotism is indeed for low-lifes and those incapable of intellectual thought, you only have to look at what is happening in the world. The evidence is everywhere. Patriotism is very childish indeed. I wish more intelligent people could take power.

I can't believe how people are so blind to the problems patriotism cause.

I can seriously say I do not know what Patriotism and Nationalism is. I'll google it later when I have nothing better to do. When I'm at work then?
But Albert Einstein was a very clever bloke, so I'll go with him.

Whoever said it is a wonderfull world was on drugs. I think human nature is right bitch eh?

[format]

Did it take long to copy and paste that opening post?

Where's your sauce for that?

Google found only this page and nowhere else for the OPs rant.

[format]

I don't agree with everything that AD-15 says... but he is right that blind patriotism is both rife and potentially dangerous.

Ask anyone who thinks that their country is great, and many of them will reply with something along the lines of "Er, it just is... why do you hate my country so much *accusations of racism*".

Nothing wrong with a little bit of pride in one's country but at least try and justify it.

[Blitzen]

Where's your sauce for that?
Google found only this page and nowhere else for the OPs rant.

Regardless of where it came from, its interesting.

There is nothing wrong with having pride and patriotism about your country of origin.
Its when the blindness of it kicks in and the edges get blurred that you start treading on dangerous ground.

[schmunk]

Regardless of where it came from, its interesting.

There is nothing wrong with having pride and patriotism about your country of origin.
Its when the blindness of it kicks in and the edges get blurred that you start treading on dangerous ground.

Or when it turns into "My country's great, so yours isn't, nyer nyer nyer nyer nyer" -> WAR

or "My country's great, and so will yours be, under our protection" -> INVASION

etc.

[Englander]

I'm very proud to be British and believe that there is nothing wrong with patriotism at all, provided one restrains oneself from openly insulting other people's countries and cultures (i.e. racism).

Liking ones own country is fine, excessively disliking every other country purely due to race is less fine.

[TheAnimus]

Its when the blindness of it kicks in and the edges get blurred that you start treading on dangerous ground.

Like the welsh?

[IBM]

To be apt in quotation is a splendid and dangerous gift. Splendid, because it ornaments a mans speech with other mens jewels; dangerous, for the same reason.

Robertson Davies

IRRRRROOONNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYY



(although technically, since you didn't actually say anything other than the quote, I'm working on the implicit rather than explicit message)

[AD-15]

I'll be back to comment later on, I'm very busy atm. But Blitzen is half correct wrt to the post. It was a copy and paste job, but from one of my own posts on another forum. This forum is far more diverse and always results in far more interesting debates, so I thought I'd copy my post to here, to discuss it with you guys.

[Dareos]

I'm extremely proud of not being English


But other than that, I hate all forms of racism, and thats pretty much just another one

[jim]

Regardless of where it came from, its interesting.

There is nothing wrong with having pride and patriotism about your country of origin.
Its when the blindness of it kicks in and the edges get blurred that you start treading on dangerous ground.

Exactly... nationalism has been exploited throughout history, but pride in your country doesn't need to be lumped in with all of nationalism's worst connotations.