UT2004 UK rebate problem

[Spud1]

Ok, i got my copy of UT2004 today and the rebate coupon, which wants me to send off my UT2003 CD1 to get my £7.50

what-a-f**kin-joke tbh. Like many other gamers (read ataris forums for more info) UT2003 is part of my collection, just because ut2004 includes all of 2003's contend shouldnt mean that i have to render my game useless to get my rebate, especially when US customers just have to send off the manual cover.. its retarded tbh

anyway i'm not going to send it in, BUT theres hopefully a way we can still get our rebate. A fair number of ppl on various forums are sending the following letter to watchdogUK(a consumer affairs TV program renowned for solving problems) So if as many of you as possibly (whether you own UT or not) could send this email off to them I would be grateful, as if enough ppl do it should get sorted for us...


'
Atari are the computer game publisher's of Epic's (www.epicgames.com) most recent release in the series of Unreal Tournament games called Unreal Tournament 2004 (UT2K4).
Back in November 2002, Atari also released Epic's Unreal Tournament 2003 (UT2K3).

When UT2K4 was announced in approx. May of 2003 there was also an announcement of a rebate offer of "some kind" when you purchased UT2K4, this was undisclosed until the 17th of October 2003 when it was announced (in this thread on Atari's official forums http://www.ataricommunity.com/forum...te&pagenumber=9) that for UK resident’s the rebate would be in the form of £7.50 on receipt of a 'suitable' proof of purchase of UT2K3 and the receipt or invoice for UT2K4.
UT2K4 was finally released worldwide on the 15th of March 2004, although retailers in the UK didn't start selling it until the 19th.
Upon opening my copy of UT2K4 I was shocked to see that the proof of purchase required was the UT2K3 Disc 1 (the play disc).

As all items sent in would not be returned, if I am to receive my rebate then I will no longer be able to re-install and play UT2K3, indeed, my games collection will be a CD missing if nothing else. The voucher for the rebate advises that all material sent to Atari should be backed up, although with CD-copy protection installed on the disc this would still render the CD unable to be used as it should be.
The UK is the only country where a rebate has been offered and is required to submit a CD as proof of purchase. To my knowledge, all other countries where a rebate is offered are required to send in the cover from the manual for UT2K3.
Although UT2K4 includes all the content of UT2K3 it is irrelevant in my opinion. If I wish to play UT2K3 in the future for any reason I so desire I would be unable to. I can indeed offer a not unrealistic example.

I currently take part in many internet based gaming leagues and ladders, and at last count, my team was signed up to 7 different cups and leagues involving UT2K3. Although it is no doubt many of these leagues will move over to the newer version on Unreal Tournament, for the moment, they shall remain UT2K3. If tomorrow I was to send off my UT2K3 disc and claim my rebate and then if before all these leagues moved over to UT2K4 I was to have a computer problem which resulted in me having to re-install software I would be unable to continue to play in those ladders and leagues in a game which I paid good money for.

Could I please on behalf of the entire UK Unreal Tournament community ask that you investigate this matter as despite several attempts to get a response from Atari they seem quite happy to ignore our questions. '


The web addy for watchdog is www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog

Thanks

Spud/Pete

[shiato storm]

not that i'm an advocate of any illegal behaviour but this does seem a silly situation. you purchased a game (UT2003) and now as part of their 'rebait' system ask you to give it back. well, what the hell are they going ot do with it once they get it?...realistically it has very little value to them - once a CD is burned thats it. and to be honest its not like they couldn't just cook up another just like that...
could it be that they need some copies back as part of some under-handed tactics for when ut2003 is re-released as one of those bargain type games?...
and surely for the £7 odd it get you is it really worth it? seems an aweful lot of hassle to be - as though they really aren't expecting to actually honour the rebait since it seems to ridiculous that no one is actually going to do it...

..all seems a bit dodgy...

my advice if you so wish - clone cd it so you have a copy and send back the original...that way you have an identical version - just not official.

[shiato storm]

p.s. perhaps they've run out of shiny coasters at the company?

oh, i thought things like cd cloning would work for this game? perhaps not then...

[Steve]

You don't need the CD to run UT2003 anymore anyway.

Installing it without the CD would be a bitch though.

I really don't like this particular rebate idea, it seems dodgy.

[floppybootstomp]

Whilst not in agreement with returning the original CD as proof of purchase, you are legally entitled to make backups of legitimately purchased games, so just copy the CD before you return it. Cost about 30p - 50p.

Then install Patch 2225 and you don't need the CD in the drive to run it anyway. That's what I'm doing.

And tbh, it's unlikely I'll play UT2003 again now UT2004 is here.

Does seem like a lot of hassle for £7.50 though

[Agent]

On the back of the rebate coupon :

"Keep copies of all material sent"

So, as we have to send disk one off, they basicly just said copying it is fine !

Im also mailing them with my own personal letter. The UK is the ONLY country that has to do this

[Stoo]

I'm waiting to see what happens over this before I start sending things away..

[Spud1]

The point that i'm making is that we shouldnt have to give up our original CD and be forced to use NO-CD cracks to play the game. It also significantly devalues the game...

[Dorza]

Yeh this rebate thing sucks, in my eyes it should be as simple as this

Buy ut2003 - its yours no one can take it off u YOU'VE PAIDFOR IT

buy ut2004 - and you should be able to just go into a shop, show them ur CD-KEY on the back of the manual, they log that, then the log the little numbers at the bottom of the CDs and hey presto u get money off 2004. Im asuming them 7 little numbers at the bottom of each CD's are unique. Or if that isnt the case we just send of the manual or case or what ever like everyone else is doing. Once again the british public are being conned. its a damn cheek imho uve bought UT2003 it should be urs to keep.

[pyro]

One word: deviance.

[SilentDeath]

maybe it would be good for some one to try claiming the rebate only sending in what the other contries have to? it might just be a mistake on the thing.....
Where do you get the rebate a sho or so you send it off?
Also no-cd cracks are ILLEGIAL even if you OWN the original cd, as europe has new legislation copying the crappy american law on copyright stuff... using the official patch is legal but technicly it is illegial too... as it defeats copyright protection.

[Agent]

maybe it would be good for some one to try claiming the rebate only sending in what the other contries have to? it might just be a mistake on the thing.....
Where do you get the rebate a sho or so you send it off?
Also no-cd cracks are ILLEGIAL even if you OWN the original cd, as europe has new legislation copying the crappy american law on copyright stuff... using the official patch is legal but technicly it is illegial too... as it defeats copyright protection.

Well, the problem is that the copy protection used is really really bad.
Go and check out the offical UT2004 forums, and count the amount of "my DVD isnt working" threads. A LOT of DVD drives can not read the discs copy protection, mine included.

ATARI have a "well you could download the DVD crack, but we cant tell you to do this because its bad...mm..k ?" (thats pretty much exactly what i was told over the phone). They are also not removing posts with DVD/CD crack info in them as there is so many people that can not play the game they purchased, although they have gone short of saying that it is officaly ok.

The rebate isnt a mistake either, they are just being anal about it.
Same as they only alowd one UK games distributor in the UK have copys of the SE DVD version - which they monopolised on the price.

[SilentDeath]

Some one should try sending the rebate thing with just the reciet/manual cover anyway just to see if it works, maybe even send it to the US rebate thing, though that probably wouldnt work...

[shiato storm]

clearly this rebate thing has been really well thought out by those who proposed it!!

and the fact that the dvd version is causing problems again suggests that perhaps these things haven't been really tested out too well.
another way of looking at it - that will hopefully settle a few of your minds - and that is the point that games on dvd are relatively new. its starting to drive the market now. recall when cds first used data?i'm sure there were problems back then when games started using cds. now could be no different and that it will take a bit of time to fine tune the system. I know dvds have been around for some time now but producers - having virtually sussed out the copy protection on a cd - are applying their knowledge to dvds. and clearly they're cocking up royally. but someone had to do it to get the ball rolling didn't they? and if you look at it in a way that means they can prevent copying ensuring some grubby man in the middle east doesn't undermine the games making companies, thus ensuring games keep being made forus peeps then alls good.
a poo copy protection script resulting in failure of the disk to execute proves two things. they've got it half right, and they've got it half wrong and it still needs some work.
so, bitch away if you want, heck - you paid for it, you get your working copy! - but be nice to who ever deals with it, i'm sure they're well aware of the problem and are trying to deal with it. after all if they loose the faith of their customers they're out of a job!

[i have an image of a million monkeys sitting at computers trying to solve little problems like these when they occur. you never know, one of them might find a solution!!]

[SilentDeath]

I disagree. copy protection is evil. Look at the recent doings of the RIAA involving making cd's that wont play on pc's becuase they ar enot to the CD specification. They did test them properly, but in a new way - they SOLD the test cd's and used the consumers to test them. if it got sent back, it doesnt work, simple, but evil.
When games first went onto CD they didnt use copy protection, or it was simple and could be got around very easly (x-com apocalyspe, carmegeddon and a few others come to mind - note i OWN these games!).
Copy protection is more like play protection and tbh I thnk it has gone too far (esp as now original disks can damage hardware!).
The only decent copy protection I know of involves muliplayer games where your cd key is used to auth you, an example being HL. It only works with online games though...
There is no point in cd keys on single player games as a quick google finds a few hundred....

Sorry for going off topic

[Agent]

Yup, and what makes it worse is that these "DVD's" carry the DVD ROM logo on them.
Im not sure who owns the rights to this logo (forum ?) but as the DVD is not working in a LOT of drives due to the copy protection, it dont follow the DVD standard. If this is the same as CD's, it should not have that logo on it.