So my estate agent really has been terrible... (snotty letter time)

[Nick]

My estate agent is rubbish... so last night I emailed the MD of the company... see below:

Dear Michael,

Back in March of this year, we signed a contract with Nick at the Mansfield branch of Burchell Edwards, to use your company to sell our house.

This is possibly the worst decision we have ever made.

The twelve week ‘anniversary’ of handing in the contract at the branch passed last weekend, at which point I went into the branch to tell Nick that my patience had run out and I was going multi-agent. Given that even the simplest request cannot be met, as has been proved today, I am now considering withdrawing my house from sale with you entirely.

I suppose that the staff there have now completely given up on selling our house because of this, but to be frank, the level of service I’m receiving is no different than everything I’ve experienced since signing on with you.

Calls are never returned, questions are always deferred to someone else ‘as they know’ but are still not answered, the branch blames the regional office for mistakes whilst the regional office claims that the errors are made at the branch and the lack of pro-activity in selling the house is, well, astounding... but in the worst way possible.

Fortunately, as I’m used to dealing with those of a Teflon-shouldered nature, that appear to make up your rank and file, I have kept the vast majority of my communication with the branch as email, either to confirm a call or to give instruction, so I have a detailed catalogue of the utter disaster our house sale has been so far.

The latest in a long line of dismally incompetent failures, is the simple task of sending over our HIP report by email.

This was promised to be with me by Tuesday this week, it’s still not here and two calls to the branch today resulted in Ben first telling me that he would get Andy to call me and, when I called again as Andy had not called me, he told me he was just out of the door for an appointment. Which is fine... except I still don’t have the HIP report and no-one really cares...

As I said, this is the latest in a series of disappointments and broken promises that would make an awesome show on one of those “Homes from Hell” TV programs, or better yet, and possibly more appropriately, that great program on the BBC about cowboy traders. Please note my job title... we're based in Elstree studios so I could nip next door and sort it, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility!

Perhaps your staff are paid per client they sign on? It certainly feels like that as the most pro-active communication we had was in pushing us to sign the damn contract... and after that a bout of radio silence that would’ve made a stealth bomber blush. Maybe your employee incentive scheme is a new set of golden spurs per 10 customers signed? Not that I’m at all suggesting you have cowboys working for you... but maybe you could ask them if they know how to put up a For Sale sign? I’d love to see one outside our house... and surely 12 weeks has been long enough to read the manual on how to use a hammer?

I am more than happy to forward over all the correspondence I have had with the branch and Jess at the regional office. Personal highlights for me, and I’m sure you’ll love them too, would be the wonderful floor plan which omitted the bay-fronted aspect of the house, thus cutting the massive family bathroom down to a size suggesting it is usable by no more than one, very slim, dwarf at a time. Just when I thought this couldn’t be topped, there was the description when the house finally make it to RightMove where the dining room, downstairs cloakroom and wide drive, all good selling points, were left out of the details completely.

I was going to ask if you’ve ever heard of a four bedroom detached family home that didn’t have a dining room but after having dealt with the staff at the Mansfield branch for the last 3 months, I’m fairly sure they are from another planet, so it could be possible the concept of such a feature is as alien to them as they are to me.

One thing I must commend you on is your devotion to science and attempts to prove that theory of an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare. I’m just a little disappointed that you let all those monkeys loose on my property details, forcing me to re-write the entire thing... Sadly, my suggestion of updating the details on RightMove so that we no longer showed as having an “En-suite to Master Garage” only resulted in success after reminding your staff several times... but good luck with the Shakespear thing.

Anyway Michael, I hope you can see that despite your staffs’ best efforts, I’ve not lost my sense of humour and even though I’ve still yet to see a brochure of my house, (apparently that was my fault for delaying things by asking questions...), I’m still hopeful of shifting the house in what seems to be a market regaining confidence... something I’ve completely lost in your team.

Feel free to ignore this email or pass it onto a minion to deal with, but I would be more than happy to have a chat anytime about the above and much more.

Yours, still smiling despite it all,

Nick Haywood

No reply as yet....

[alsenior]

Wow... Just wow

the level of imcomptence shown there make the people who i work with godlike

[GoNz0]

they have always been a bunch of ass hats, i delt with the eastwood branch. they had the balls to tell me that moving agents after our contract period and selling with them would mean we still have to pay there fee even though they did bugger all to try and sell it apart from cock up the details.

3 weeks after telling them to come get there sign i ripped it out, drove up the the shop and threw it in the door shouting "not that dificult was it"

they also have a nasty habit of coming to the house when the new owners are moved in and putting a letter through hand written to "the owner" with a please call this number 01773 ******

after we sold we went to collect mail from the new owner and he told us he had rang the number to be met by a sales rep asking 20 questions about who he brought the house from so they could try to bill us

he refused point blank to give our details or i dare say we would have had a nasty letter to the parents as that was the forwarding addy until the new gaff was ready !

get out and pick a local agents to do the work, they want the business as they get paid once sold unlike the rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish in burchells raking there low weekly wage,

[Rave]

My estate is rubbish...

Maybe that's why it hasn't sold yet?

But seriously, why are you moving? You only moved a couple of years ago did you not?

[Nick]

Maybe that's why it hasn't sold yet?

But seriously, why are you moving? You only moved a couple of years ago did you not?

Whoops... changed now.

and in answer to the question, circumstances changed, kinda forcing the move. Hopefully, if things go right, it won't be quite so urgent but we'll see.

[Rave]

As I'm sure you know, I've been banging on about falls in house prices for years; but I don't see the recent 'positive news' as anything other than a blip in the otherwise relentless downward trend in house prices. I think it's a 'dead cat bounce' or a 'bull trap' to use the favoured parlance.

If you really need to sell, then price your house attractively, and ensure you carefully balance any 'loss' you might make taking a haircut on the asking price against the costs of not selling and staying put. At the end of the day, last month saw the highest unemployment figures since 1996, and rates for fixed rate mortgages are now rising even for those with a healthy deposit. Personally I can't see how this could possibly be the end of the crash in house prices- the fundamentals for a recovery just aren't there.

If you really need to move, get a decent agent, cut the price you're asking, take an offer a bit below that while the going's still good, and rent for a couple of years while the crap hits the fan.

[Rebel]

That letter is superb and, deserves to go in your local paper imho.

[Saracen]

.....

If you really need to sell, then price your house attractively, and ensure you carefully balance any 'loss' you might make taking a haircut on the asking price against the costs of not selling and staying put. At the end of the day, last month saw the highest unemployment figures since 1996, and rates for fixed rate mortgages are now rising even for those with a healthy deposit. Personally I can't see how this could possibly be the end of the crash in house prices- the fundamentals for a recovery just aren't there.

....

You may be right about that .... but you may not.

House prices are certainly linked to the overall economy and, IMHO, we're certainly not out of trouble with that yet, however much Messrs Brown and Darling, et.al. might wish it so. But it's not a direct correlation, and there's potential for slippage on timeframes too.

First, remember that prices will only fall so far. We're pretty much already at the point where the only people that will sell currently are those that have to, and those that can make a bigger killing on the place they move to that the kicking they get on the place they sell. So, there's a limit to how much further prices will fall, before we run put of people that have to sell and owners just hunker down and wait it out, however long that takes.

Right now, there's a shortage of buyers, but price is a function of both demand and supply. If supply (of houses on the market) falls, the effect is either for prices to rise, or at least, for any falls to talk off. Then look at the other side of the equation. What affects the amount of buyers? First and most obviously, confidence ... and expectations. There certainly are signs that confidence is growing. Tentatively, but growing. There are also signs that the restrictions on credit availability are finally and slowly starting to ease.

Next, make no mistake, the current economic crisis, for all that it's deep and severe, doesn't mean there's no money about. Yes, lots of people have been hit and many hit hard. Yes, unemployment is high and not only still rising but as a lagging indicator, is likely to keep on doing so for some months yet. Yes, a lot of people are facing cutbacks in income even if not facing redundancy. Yes, it's bad in many ways. But there is still a lot of money floating about, and with interest rates at rock bottom, there's a lot of people eyeing up the property market as a place to stick some of the cash that's doing naff-all in the bank.

And if you're going to buy property, the best time to do it is (IMHO) while it's still falling, but preferably, just before it stops falling. If you think we might be facing another two or three months of falling prices before a recovery and that those falls won't, therefore, be huge, buy now. At least start the process now. Why? Because the price you can negotiate will be better while the seller still thinks the market is in the toilet. If he thinks we're entering recovery, he'll think all he has to do to better his sale price is to wait. Sell before prices reach a peak, and buy before they reach a trough.

So with signs of improving confidence, with finance availability starting to ease, with people looking to buy before prices start to recover and a frenzy of those waiting for the best bargain before jumping in start to move for fear of missing out .... well, the circumstances are such that it wouldn't take that much for the fall to stop and a recovery to start, even though the economy has more pain to go.

I'm not predicting that this is what will happen .... just that the conditions are such that it could and some of the biggest factors in whether it does, like confidence levels, are both fickle and difficult to forecast.

[666moe666]

That Sir, is a rather superb letter.
They do sound like cowboys to be fair. Pay peanuts get monkeys i suppose.

[schmunk]

First, remember that prices will only fall so far. We're pretty much already at the point where the only people that will sell currently are those that have to, and those that can make a bigger killing on the place they move to that the kicking they get on the place they sell. So, there's a limit to how much further prices will fall, before we run put of people that have to sell and owners just hunker down and wait it out, however long that takes.

If rates go back up by a few percentage points, I think that prices would fall again significantly, as the variable raters find themselves priced out of their mortgages - as before, starting with the buy-to-letters.

[Nick]

Rave, the house is priced competitively. The reason it hasn't had a single person through the door is because after 3 months those useless agents still haven't even advertised it. We've kept an eye on the market up here anbd seen 3 bed houses near us go for 15K less in a matter of weeks... the houses are shifting, we just chose the Keystone Cops instead of a decent agents.

The issue I have is the north/south divide. Basically, house prices up here haven't dropped as much, maybe 2-3% compared to the 20-30% down south.

That was great 3 months ago but now southern prices are creeping up again, meaning I get less for my money as prices up here are stable.

That's the thing... a house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. So in boom times, someone is going to place a value on being in the heart of Kensington and will happily pay £3 million for a flat... as soon as the bonus scheme goes, they see the value in paying a much lower mortgage and getting the train each morning... so they won't pay that £3 million.

That's where that horrific 'house prices drop by 30%' thing came from... from people no longer willing to pay an extra £250k to be within walking distance of a mainline train service into London. But up here, no one gives a stuff about London, so you don't get much of that price by location increase, hence more stable prices.

Anyhoo, I wonder if I'll ever get a reply...

[Russ]

fancy righting me a letter for my estate agent Nick?

had about 6 viewings in 4 months :|

[Moby-Dick]

class mail Nick though I'll be impressed if you can find a good estate agent *anywhere*

[Nick]

UPDATE:

As I sent that mail, I got one from the estate agent with the HIP report... so here's another letter to Michael:

Hi Michael,

Sorry to spam your inbox, but as I sent you that mail, the HIP report landed in my inbox from Andy.

Sadly, all this did was underline my earlier comments about a level of competency normally only found in single celled organisms...

Here’s the link Andy sent:

http://www.be-hip.net/properties/vie...MBsGtTAvHldQbI

And this is what it gives you:

Server Error in '/' Application.
________________________________________
The resource cannot be found.
Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.

Requested URL: /properties/default.aspx

It brings a tear to my eye, it really does.

Obviously I appreciate the charitable anthropological streak in you that makes you feel you have to give jobs to people with the IQ of a shopping trolley but I really would like to sell my house at some point.

The rate this is going, despite global warming, I'll still be waiting for a buyer when the next glaciers hit... and no doubt that'll be my fault for not shutting up about all the mistakes your staff have made.

Yours, in eternal, (hopefully not vain), hope,

Nick Haywood

[jim]

I appreciate the charitable anthropological streak in you that makes you feel you have to give jobs to people with the IQ of a shopping trolley

Epic... I hope you get somewhere with this, but even if you don't it was well worth the effort!

[Rave]

First, remember that prices will only fall so far.

Well, how far is that? In real terms houses more than doubled from 1996-2007, so it's not at all absurd to think that in real terms they could fall by 50%. So far we've only seen 20% falls. In pretty much all previous house price crashes prices have fallen below the historical average of 3.5x average earnings.

We're pretty much already at the point where the only people that will sell currently are those that have to,

Yes, like banks that have repossessed.

So, there's a limit to how much further prices will fall, before we run put of people that have to sell and owners just hunker down and wait it out, however long that takes.

No, there's no limit. As prices fall more people will end up in negative equity. Banks probably won't start doing 'margin calls' on owner-occupiers, although in many cases there are clauses in the mortgage that allow them to, but in the case of buy-to-let investors they will have absolutely no compunction in demanding chunks of repayment in order to get the value of the outstanding loan below the current value of the property. If it happens this will drive many BTL investors to the wall and trigger repossessions. And that flood of repossessions hitting the market will in turn lower prices further and cause more margin calls.

It is, IMO, very naive to think that there's some limit beyond which prices cannot fall. The same forces that drove prices up way beyond any semblance of good sense could also cause them to plunge way below their 'fair' value. The government can try to interfere all it likes, but they don't have the funds to rig a free market any more. The bank bailout put paid to their spending power.

Right now, there's a shortage of buyers, but price is a function of both demand and supply. If supply (of houses on the market) falls, the effect is either for prices to rise, or at least, for any falls to talk off.

There will always be plenty of supply in a crash- repossessions will see to that.

Then look at the other side of the equation. What affects the amount of buyers? First and most obviously, confidence ... and expectations.

I'd say availability of finance was the most obvious, personally.

There certainly are signs that confidence is growing. Tentatively, but growing. There are also signs that the restrictions on credit availability are finally and slowly starting to ease.

Yeah? I heard that 5 year fixes are going up in price.

But there is still a lot of money floating about, and with interest rates at rock bottom, there's a lot of people eyeing up the property market as a place to stick some of the cash that's doing naff-all in the bank.

I don't think there's a lot of money about, but there's some, I agree. And some of the people that have it are thinking that they'll buy houses now that prices have fallen 20%, and so prices are levelling off while they all pile in.

But soon, they'll all have blown their wad and prices will fall again. It happens in any kind of market crash, and is referred to as a 'bull trap' or a 'dead cat bounce'. Have a look here:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/ind...-inflation.php

There were periods in the crash of 1989-1996 when prices rose in both real and nominal terms. That didn't stop the crash going on, after these brief rises prices just resumed their relentless downward spiral. And, as I say, the economic fundamentals this time are much, much worse.

If you think we might be facing another two or three months of falling prices before a recovery and that those falls won't, therefore, be huge, buy now.

Yes, that's obvious. But if you do think prices are about to stop falling, you are, IMO, deluding yourself.