Landlord, and phone line issues

[TooNice]

Hi guys,

I need some major help. After one year of relatively trouble free accomodation (except for the 2.5 months without a fridge, and erm, 5 months without a functioning vaccum cleaner), my landlord is taking a series of step that is really beginning to frustrate me. I'll spare you I'll the minor issues that is slowly getting to me (such as make changes/bring things for the flat that we never asked for, agree to but do not replace the things we need - fridge/vaccum cleaner being a good example). But I'll stick with the main issue at hand.

It started off with my landlord's decision to switch ISP to one that is more restrictive and hardly worked for 5 weeks. I've taken every single steps from offering to pay more rent, to taking responsibility for the line etc to prevent the change, but he wouldn't budge, telling me to get my own line if I wanted a better connection. It took 5 weeks for him to acknowledge there was a fault and to do something about it. Even now he's put a 'catch all' clause (by SMS) that states 'The communal internet is for general private communication and internet surfing only' and goes on to say that we are responsible for any fees that results from going above the limit.

So I called BT, and activated a spare line to a socket just outside my door. Got ADSL setup, and everything's fine. Or so I thought. This morning he came in with an electrician. I have no idea what he is here for me to be honest, our electricity works fine (until they cut it off as I am typing this on notepad), though I can't say the same for our central heating. I think he wants to change the lighting system or something. So he says that he wants that line for himself and since it's his, I shouldn't use it without paying him for it. But ideally, that I should get a completely new line because that spare line is going to be linked to his house in Brighton as some kind of leased line. I am not really sure what he is talking about (he doesn't live in this flat - London), but let's say that he is not BSing about his intentions this time to make a quick buck (I still don't understand why he wants to link the his house and this flat given that he doesn't live here).

1. Is it reasonable for him to just claim the line for himself and make me rent from him? Sure he paid for it, but he also paid for the kitchen equipment and we aren't expected to rent that. Whether I like it or not, the socket I've got my router connected to is coming off.

2. I always thought those box would belong to BT but apparently they wired the box themselves, so he can take it off. And that is what he plans to do because the wires currently runs along the wall and he wants to make the flat look nicer. Which means that I most likely will need to get my own socket installed by BT whether I get a brand new line, or rent from him (there is a fair chance that he'll make me get my own line - it's added value for him when I move out).

In the event that I need a new line and socket installed in my room, does anyone know if I will be incurred a 2nd activation charge, and most importantly, my ADSL re-routed to the new line?

If it's not, then it would be cheaper for me to just cancel my newly activated line with BT, incurring whatever cost. Then find a new place to stay.

It's a bit of a pain because this is flat is in a decent location, and to be honest, not that expensive. Still, I am now seeing the disadvantage of living in an 'all-inc' flat, especially when the landlord is beginning to take full control of what is going on in the flat. It wouldn't really surprise me if after I go home tonight, I will find two of my three currently working power socket disabled (one of the four is already disabled). He is the guy who recently sent a text that states 'Each room is electrically wired for a television and another electrically powered appliance to be used together at any one time only. Do NOT overload supply'.

Later today, I may draft a letter for you all to critique. I hope that this can be resolve diplomatically, so I want to make sure that nothing is phrased confrontationally. In fact, I would appreciate if anyone could give me some pointers as to how I should go about it.

Cheers.

(This message was posted from McDonald because my power is going to be cut for the day *sigh*)

[format]

Wow, your landlord sounds like a right arse.
I've had similar problems in the past - windows that didn't seal properly, combined with central heating that didn't work, leaks that needed buckets coming from the above flats, mold, etc etc.
I feel for you.
I can't really help you with the legal side of it but I wish you the best of luck

[kalniel]

our electricity works fine (until they cut it off as I am typing this on notepad), though I can't say the same for our central heating.

He's obligated to provide working heating I think.

So he says that he wants that line for himself and since it's his, I shouldn't use it without paying him for it.

If he's passing on the line rental charges then sounds fine to me.

But ideally, that I should get a completely new line because that spare line is going to be linked to his house in Brighton as some kind of leased line. I am not really sure what he is talking about (he doesn't live in this flat - London), but let's say that he is not BSing about his intentions this time to make a quick buck (I still don't understand why he wants to link the his house and this flat given that he doesn't live here).

Very strange.. does he just mean he's taking the number?

1. Is it reasonable for him to just claim the line for himself and make me rent from him? Sure he paid for it, but he also paid for the kitchen equipment and we aren't expected to rent that. Whether I like it or not, the socket I've got my router connected to is coming off.

If there's an ongoing cost to him then it is reasonable for him to make you pay line rental.

In the event that I need a new line and socket installed in my room, does anyone know if I will be incurred a 2nd activation charge, and most importantly, my ADSL re-routed to the new line?

It probably counts as moving house - so check your contract - usually you're allowed one move for free.

It's a bit of a pain because this is flat is in a decent location, and to be honest, not that expensive. Still, I am now seeing the disadvantage of living in an 'all-inc' flat

Doesn't sound all inclusive at all - if it was all inclusive then he can't charge you for line rental unless that was specified as an exception.

[TooNice]

I don't think he was paying a monthly fee for the line I activated. The line was dead and unused, which is why BT enabled it when I asked for a new line (and paid a connection fee of around £120). I think that he is trying to recoup the cost of having the second line in the flat (admitedly unusual).

Originally, I was planning to get a brand new line in my room. When the engineer came though, he explained that they enabled the second line in the flat which is wired to a socket next to my room (literally), and though he could get a brand new line to a my room, I would be billed separately for it (and it would be a lot more than just £120 since it's not just a connection fee). Since he couldn't give me the exact cost of the job, and I saw the spare line as just another facility available to us, I decided to stick with it.

[pauldarkside]

What about moving? Might sound extreme but nightmare landlords don't suddenly get better overnight, they progressively get worse. If you're unhappy with your landlord now, do you really want to be committing to a 12 month contract on a new landline?

Have to say though, it's the first time I've heard of one providing and maintaining things like vacuum cleaners - that sort of stuff is usually, in my experience, down to the tenant. Maybe he's not all bad.

Best of luck with it though. Been in similar myself but moved as soon as I had the chance.

[Lucio]

As long as you've paid all the charges on the line, including line rental, then the landlord has no rights to the line whatsoever. The line is property of BT and it's up to them who they sell it to, not your landlord.

If he's tampered with it, or otherwise interfered with it then I'd damn well report him to BT and then look at taking him to court to recover any and all costs you've incurred as a result of getting the line activated.

Secondly I'd also get the **** out of that property ASAP because your landlord sounds like a right arse who hasn't got a clue on his legal obligations.

[TooNice]

What about moving? Might sound extreme but nightmare landlords don't suddenly get better overnight, they progressively get worse. If you're unhappy with your landlord now, do you really want to be committing to a 12 month contract on a new landline?

Too late for that. If I leave now I'll be £200 down (£120 for the connection fee, and roughly £90 for the BT contract). I am still in my cooling period with O2, so no real loss there (except the time, and having to send back the router - if I can't shift the line to the new place).

Have to say though, it's the first time I've heard of one providing and maintaining things like vacuum cleaners - that sort of stuff is usually, in my experience, down to the tenant. Maybe he's not all bad.

Really? The last two places I stayed in both had vacuum cleaners. There's a mutual benefit. We are obviously expected to maintain (e.g. clear the bag/buy new bags) as required which is quite reasonable. Kind of like supplying us with a microwave (note: I do not have an oven - he's promised us a large microwave-oven combo a few months ago but eh, I won't hold my breath for it), but expecting us to keep it clean. But maybe my previous landlord were just really nice.

He is not all bad. Or at least he wasn't before summer. Sure, he takes his sweet time to get things done (heating is back on, hurray! for now anyway - we lost hot water twice this month), but he wasn't that disruptive last year, and we didn't bug him much either.

@Lucio: I've paid the connection fee, and I am paying the line rental, so the only thing I've not paid for, is getting the line fitted in the first place (admittedly, that's the bigger part of the cost). I am going to check my tenancy agreement later, but the argument (weirdly enough, mentioned by the [rather rude] electrician!) is that I am renting a room, and not the communal area. So the socket, located outside my room is something I am not allowed to use.

What puzzles me, is the actual socket. Did they temper with it? Or is it some form of extension that they are allowed to install themselves? When the BT engineer came in, he tested the line using that socket, and I am certainly getting some reliable connection with it.

I've taken a couple of pictures to show what is going where.

1. This is the socket I have my router plugged to. Not sure if it's an old master socket or extension.


2. The wire out of the socket is going along the walls. Landlord think it doesn't look nice and wants to remove both the wire and presumably the socket.


3. The wire can be traced back to a box. I have no idea what it is. This box has wire running outside the window. I can only guess that it links to the outdoor.. but I can only see *1* wire out.


4. And yet somehow, there are two wires coming down from that box.


5. I am 99% sure that the other wire, which go up the door and out of sight is being used by the router there. I'll need a ladder to reach there.


Unless I've made a mistake, there is one physical line in, yet it's split into two inside the flat. Each 'wire' has it's own phone number.

[Sorry if this is very basic. I never had to look carefully at how those things work]

[peterb]

There wqas a system where two logical phone numbers could be provided over one physical line opair - played havoc with ADSL (as it was a carrier based system) and AFIK, it has been phased out.#

The incoming cable may have two (or more) pairs in it, so erach pair is a separate line.

Your 'mistake' was probably not getting the landlord's permission to use that socket before you had the work done. It puts you in a tricky position, although it depends on whether you have a tenancy agreement, or a licence to occupy.

[TooNice]

Point taken. He asked me to get my own line if I was not satisfied with what he offered. When I asked BT for a new line, they just activated that one. In hindsight, I should've insisted a completely separate line/master box, but at the time I thought that doing would've been classified as 'alteration' to my room. And yes, it's also true that I did not want to spend when if it's not necessary (why buy a new kettle if there is already a working one).

[SiM]

I would log all of this stuff (heating not working, him abusing your rights etc.) so if it does go to court you have an accurate list with date and time.