Scumbags.

[TheAnimus]

Its the responsibility of the owner to ensure that and there is no valid reason for it not happening.

Whilst I think the moon and the sun align their views more often than we do, you are kind of right.

If you haven't got the time the pet deserves, get a fish tank, what with a decent filtration system, and a high quality timer feeder, It takes about 3 hours of my time a month, and they are unlikely to escape.

Someone here went to confront someone who had by actions of your mother felt agreved. You go round un-invited to make things worse, and they escalate it further. What did you expect to happen?

That said, if it was me I'd have probably said see you in court, looked into deformation of character, bribing the police to charge them with wasting time.....

anything but apologise

[JPreston]

The only thing i can say is that non of our dogs have escaped before, they have a 3 acres of land to run around in but i would warn you, dogs have got INTO our land before and if our dogs were out (4 german sheperds and one itilian mastif) they would have killed it, that what you have to worry about, if your dog got into a garden that had multiple dogs it could end in disaster.

Or, a garden with a little kid playing in it under the supervision of someone who could not reasonably be expected to fight off a massive dog. Or, a pet rabbit being allowed to run around outside its hutch for a while. Won't someone please think of the rabbits?

If you (the OP) don't want to be indebted to people whose lifestyle you disapprove of but nonetheless whose capture and supervision of your dog is the only thing saving it from seriously harming or killing someone for which you would be criminally negligent, then train it to only run loose in nice middle class areas. Or you know, tie it up, fix your fence or otherwise take some responsibility for it

[Saracen]

As for assault, couldnt his Mother easily have felt threatened by the attitude of the other party? It seems to me she was the one who was most threatened in the whole situation regardless of what the police made you do and is probably in the best position to be claiming assault. Its a bit of a shame you didnt contact them straight away instead of going round there youself really......

Perhaps. But it's more than someone feeliong threatened, it's someone else doing something to make you fear imminent violence or force. Did threOP's mother have reason to feel that? Who knows. We haven't even had a second-hand account of how that that went, let alone the third hand account the OP could have given, since he wasn't even there for that bit. But if so, the response would have been, as you say, to call the police herself.

It remains the case that there were two separate incidents. One, the OPs mother and the other party, and two, the OP and his visit. Whether an assault was committed on the OP's mother the first time doesn't affect whether it was the second time, and certainly, even if it was the first time, that's no excuse for doing it the second time (if, as alleged by the people he visited, he actually did).

We simply don't know. All we know is what the OP told us, and assuming he's telling us the absolute truth and giving a complete, accurate, unbiased and representative account of what happened (and he'll probably be the first human witness in history if he is), he can't tell us what happened when he wasn't there. He can only tell us what he was told did, and even that is only giving us one side of the story. So, I don't judge. I simply say there's another side to the story, and that it all started with a dog getting out when a duty exists to ensure it didn't (see below). And whose liability ids that? The owner, and/or any person temporarily responsible for the escapee dog at the time of it's bid for freedom.

well hold on, we have had a dog escape before... infact its happened a few times; once with our dog and we repaired the gap then with a relatives dog which again followed with a repairing of the damaged fence. Its not because we didnt have control its just because of the curious nature of the animal. It finds a gap somewhere which it can sqeeze through and it might just decide to do it. That doesnt show a lack of control over the animal necessarily just a slight oversight in the environment and i know in our case at least it was quite difficult to see without carefully checking every millimeter of the fence every couple of days to see if the nails holding it together where getting rusty.
If this is a frequent occurrence then i would agree its a lack of control however if this is just a one off event then i personally would take insult to the comment. No-one is perfect and no environment can be completely safe and secure.

As a owner, there are a series of legal duties, and a series of possible prosecutions you face. If your dog is out and about uncontrolled, you may be committing an offence is he doesn't have name and address on his collar or a disc. If fouling occurs and isn;t cleaned up, you may be committing an offence. And so on.

But it's more than that.

What do you think is going to happen if a stray dog wanders, as well he might, out into a road, causes an accident and someone gets killed?

Oh, and by the way, if he wanders onto farmland, then there are circumstances under which the farmer is quite entitled to simply shoot him dead.

Dog owners have a duty of care over their dogs. If it gets out, you've failed in that duty. The dog merely being stray, and on public land, means the appropriate local authority officer has a right to seize it (Environmental Protection Act 1990), and you won't get it back until you have paid the reasonable costs incurred, and any other "prescribed" amount. And, if you don't do so within 7 days of receiving a notice to that effect (assuming it's tagged) then the authority can "dispose of" the animal. There are limits to what that means, so for example, no vivisection is allowed, but simple destruction by a relatively painless method is allowed, and if it's to prevent suffering, they don't even have to wait 7 days.

So ... suppose the OPs Mum's dog gets out, and gets clipped by a car and hurt. It might well have needed up getting put down, even if nobody else was hurt. That might also apply if, for instance, it got caught up in a barbed wire fence and badly hurt.

And all that is without even going into the legal obligations under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 to provide a "suitable environment", or into the myriad of varied local by-laws.

If you own a dog, and it gets out, you failed in your duty to ensure it didn't. Maybe you had inadequate fencing, maybe you didn't check up on the fence adequately, maybe the dog should have been restrained in the garden by a chain, maybe the repairs weren't done properly if it got out again having already done so before, but however you cut it the owner does always have a responsibility for their pet, for everything from complying with anti-fouling laws to making sure it doesn't run into the road and get people killed.

None of this is saying that everyone is perfect, or that someone is an evil tyrant because their dog gets out, but the fact remains that you do have a duty to make sure it doesn't, and if it does, you failed in that duty.

It;s a bit like speeding. You have a legal duty not to do it, and most people that drive couldn't truthfully claim to have never, ever done so .... let alone not to have breeched many other legal duties, much of which they may not even know exists. But with speeding, if you do it, the mere fact that you did makes you guilty of the offence and there are very few exceptions to that, and they don't include that you didn't intend to.

You're right, Biscuit. No environment can be completely secure. And that will no doubt affect the level of any penalties applied. You are expected to take all reasonable steps to deal with events that may be predictable, but not to foresee the meteorite that hit and destroyed part of a fence, allowing a dog to escape. But you're still liable for the implications of a stray dog, as the responsible person and/or owner.

[oolon]

Personally when I was young I was bitten by a dog that jumped over a gate ran out into the road, nearly knocked me off my bicycle and bit me on the leg. I hate dogs to this day. As far as I can concerned, owners should keep there vicious animals under control at all times, and forfit them if they cannot. In my case my parents let them get away with it, and the animal was allowed to live. We later found out this was not the first time it had done such a thing. I am not saying you mothers animal is bad, but she needs to lock it up or supervised it at all times.

[watforddude]

Regardless of how scummy these people were, they have a point.
The dog, no matter how nice, and how good a pet, is YOUR MUMS responsibility and she is failing in that responsibility.
You yourself say its a big dog. What if it had bitten someone because it was clearly being looked after correctly.

To be fair, if your mum is working 50 hours per week, she shouldn't have a dog to be left on its own for that amount of time anyway.


Which would offer ZERO defence if it attacked someone once escaped.

I have:
1 x German Shepard
1 x Akita INU
1 x Labrador

If any of those dogs escaped they could (and the Akita would), cause untold damage to someone.
This is why we took the decision to have them based on the fact there is someone there to look after them all of the time.

Its the responsibility of the owner to ensure that and there is no valid reason for it not happening.

Akita's are absolutely goregous, id love one!

we have our land completely sealed off and our dogs know not to go off, but they is a public footpath running down the side of our garden which one or two dogs have jumped over into, luckly the the biggest area of our land is sectioned off from the rest so the dog was safe! we have had people who have just walked into our land not realising that its private property and if Lottie (Cain Corso) even though how lovely she is to people wouldnt take kindly to another dog in her territory

if anyone is intrested what a Cain Corso looks like this is the pretty much her but she does not have docked ears

[razer121]

if it makes you feel any better....i got cuffed and pulled out of my house for looking after my family! long story short, my lil sisters mate was round who was mentaly being abused by her stepdad ( typical bulling basically) so asked us not to answer the door to him, we didnt and then he just walked in! this guy had never met us or anything i of course got up and asked what he thought he was doing...this guy is breaking into my hosue right? well anyway he called the cops and told them i was holding his step daughter hostage....totaly stupid the guy got away with it aswell!!! police are good at the job.....but ONLY when they can be bothered otherwise there a totaly waste of space...

[Saracen]

if it makes you feel any better....i got cuffed and pulled out of my house for looking after my family! long story short, my lil sisters mate was round who was mentaly being abused by her stepdad ( typical bulling basically) so asked us not to answer the door to him, we didnt and then he just walked in! this guy had never met us or anything i of course got up and asked what he thought he was doing...this guy is breaking into my hosue right? well anyway he called the cops and told them i was holding his step daughter hostage....totaly stupid the guy got away with it aswell!!! police are good at the job.....but ONLY when they can be bothered otherwise there a totaly waste of space...

In that kind of situation, the police are kind-of damned if they act, and damned if they don't.

If the bloke saying his step-daughter was being held hostage and the police did nothing, imagine the fury in the public backlash.

Police often, or perhaps nearly always, don't know on the scene of an incident what happened, and who is telling the truth, unless they or a reliable independent witness happened to see it all. So, if the allegation is serious., like kidnapping, I'd pretty much guarantee that they'll act, arrest any suspects and sort it out once they're sure the "victim" is safe.

Given the circumstances you describe, it's pretty harsh on you, but it's also hard to see that they had a lot of choice. Some situations can be defused by talk, calming people down and the exercise of judgement by police at the scene. But others can't, and if they go softly, softly and it kicks off and someone gets hurt or killed, they'll be explaining why they didn't just go in hard, and restrain the suspect. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

[daniel_owen_uk]

if it makes you feel any better....i got cuffed and pulled out of my house for looking after my family! long story short, my lil sisters mate was round who was mentaly being abused by her stepdad ( typical bulling basically) so asked us not to answer the door to him, we didnt and then he just walked in! this guy had never met us or anything i of course got up and asked what he thought he was doing...this guy is breaking into my hosue right? well anyway he called the cops and told them i was holding his step daughter hostage....totaly stupid the guy got away with it aswell!!! police are good at the job.....but ONLY when they can be bothered otherwise there a totaly waste of space...

"Guy is breaking into my house right?"

And you didn't call the police?

[usxhe190]

Once a dog trepasses into a land of the non-owner, it should loses all of its dog's rights

[cptwhite_uk]

Just replying to the OP here. How satisfying would it have been to go and *actually* slap her in face, and then apologise immediately, knowing full well they couldn't touch you for it Maybe very firmly with the back of white glove for added comic effect/insult.

Just thought I'd share that satisfying thought with you. Cheer up mate, ****ty situation for sure, but at the end of the day it's fairly small fry. Let the issue rest and give your mum some reassurance, all will be well.

[Whiternoise]

if it makes you feel any better....i got cuffed and pulled out of my house for looking after my family! long story short, my lil sisters mate was round who was mentaly being abused by her stepdad ( typical bulling basically) so asked us not to answer the door to him, we didnt and then he just walked in! this guy had never met us or anything i of course got up and asked what he thought he was doing...this guy is breaking into my hosue right? well anyway he called the cops and told them i was holding his step daughter hostage....totaly stupid the guy got away with it aswell!!! police are good at the job.....but ONLY when they can be bothered otherwise there a totaly waste of space...

Do you not have a lock on your front door?

[razer121]

ok......the girl who was "kidnapped" tryed to tell the police that she wasnt lol she was in tears up stairs scared of her stepdad........it took my gf and HIS stepdaughter about 10 mins before they uncuffed me police in banbury DONT listen.....there pretty useless here for some odd reason...

i did....but he had already got through before me! i was on the phone to the police....then somebody "the police btw" were trying to barge down my door??

we have a lock....but its a old house and old front door, the type that unless its locked fully you can open it from the outside aswell as the inside....but we have 2 dogs...so we tend not to lock it unless we go bed or go out...this guy was just lucky that our dogs were in the back garden lol

either way.........i was not in the wrong at all and all will be delt with in due time

[Michael]

Right, just to clarify, the dog climbed onto a bin and got over a 6 foot fence, so yes that may be a mistake on my mum's part, but this has never happened before so it wasn't exactly a concern, and the dog is not alone all day as my brother is in the house most days.

I feel well within my rights to go and tell this woman she was out of order for the way she spoke to her. The situation escualted with her pushing and swearing at me.

I am simply going to go around and apologize for the whole situation and ask why she lied about me hitting her, and all going well I will record her admitting it was a lie, and send the video to the police.

[Biscuit]

Right, just to clarify, the dog climbed onto a bin and got over a 6 foot fence...

This is the kind of thing i was getting at... how can you possibly predict something like that will happen without it happening the one time. Im not denying your mother is responsible for what her dog did once it escaped but i just find it quite cold and unfair for people to claim she has a lack of control from it happening. I guess its semantics as much as anything.

[MadduckUK]

why the HELL did you make rudimentary steps for your dog

[Biscuit]