Gross misconduct advice please...

[Emmax]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone is able to give me any advice on my situation...
I was recently suspended from my job further to an expenses audit, the audit found that i had been mis claiming my mileage for 3 years (since i started) i basically did not realise id claimed 10,000 miles less than my car had done (this is both business mile and private miles) i also put 3 items by mistake on my company credit card but paid these back. I was called to an investigation meeting where i explained the reason for the misclaiming mileage - my mistake, different routes taken etc and expected all to be fine - it is worth mentioning i had refered this issue to my manager previously and he had told me not to worry!!! I have now been advised i must attend a disciplinary meeting where the outcome could be dissmissal (a collegue has recently resigned for a similar reason however she was claiming for groceries also!)

Firstly is this a sackable offfence as i had raised the issue and it wasa genuine mistake?
Secondly i have now been signed off due to stress and depression - are they able to dismiss me while i am signed off? or even carry out the meeting?
Thirdly if i attend the meeting and it does not go well is it too late to resign at this point?
And my last question is should I call the manager / HR dept and ask for advice

Hope you can help
Thanks

[abaxas]

Well, your not going to like this.

But any fraud is expenses can easily be shown as gross misconduct. Lets hope you can prove it's just a mistake.

Fingers crossed for you.

[finlay666]

So you under claimed expenses for travel? Seems a very unusual thing to pull someone up on if you didn't claim 10,000 miles that you had travelled, or are you required to list all journeys, business and personal related?

You said you bought 3 things on the wrong card, were these immediately paid back?

Are you part of a union? If so I suggest you contact the union for advice

Also the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) for information as they can help. There is a specific manner matters have to be dealt with AFAIK

I wouldn't suggest contacting HR/anyone in the company about it until you have taken impartial advice from a third party on the matter

[Emmax]

Hi,

Thanks - yes the items were paid back directly to the credit card company and i advised finace dept also who accepted that was fine at the time!!
Yes I did under claim for business but also for personal miles - we basically charge all petrol to the company, state our business mileage which they pay for and then reimburse private mileage - my private mileage is not very much however but the business miles would be much more under claimed!!
it just seems a bit harsh for a mistake!!
and now i need to take the decision to resign or not but i do not want to resign if the likelyhood is this will just get a warning of some kind!!

[TeePee]

Welcome to Hexus.

[Flash477]

*edit* Sorry, re-read the inital post - edited answer below

So is it just the fact that the miles claimed, and the miles on the car do not match up? If so, was the car new when you got, or had someone else had the use of it? i.e. was on around 10k when you got it?

Have there been times when you would have used the car for personal use, used a full tank, and paid for it yourself, not bothering to claim? or could your partner have done that?

I couldn't imagine that UNDER claiming should ever get you fired - I guess that they're just concerned that under servicing could cause a problem (probably the sale of it afterwards).

As mentioned already - seek advice from your union (if you have one), and CAB

[Emmax]

I cant be sure privately how much ive over claimed - but its not as much as the amount of business miles ive under claimed so should not owe them anything!! they worked it out as the monthly claims form calculates a average litre per mile and that was too low for the amount of petrol claimed. I had raised the question if this was ok months ago and they said yes!!

I dont use any other car no, and no i dont use it too much for personal use - but there view is that i cant prove this fact and i could have been using it alot and not admitting it to them!! the business mileage is where i have under claimed but again i cannot prove this fact!!

nightmare!!!

[Unique]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone is able to give me any advice on my situation...
I was recently suspended from my job further to an expenses audit, the audit found that i had been mis claiming my mileage for 3 years (since i started) i basically did not realise id claimed 10,000 miles less than my car had done (this is both business mile and private miles) i also put 3 items by mistake on my company credit card but paid these back. I was called to an investigation meeting where i explained the reason for the misclaiming mileage - my mistake, different routes taken etc and expected all to be fine - it is worth mentioning i had refered this issue to my manager previously and he had told me not to worry!!! I have now been advised i must attend a disciplinary meeting where the outcome could be dissmissal (a collegue has recently resigned for a similar reason however she was claiming for groceries also!)

Firstly is this a sackable offfence as i had raised the issue and it wasa genuine mistake?
Secondly i have now been signed off due to stress and depression - are they able to dismiss me while i am signed off? or even carry out the meeting?
Thirdly if i attend the meeting and it does not go well is it too late to resign at this point?
And my last question is should I call the manager / HR dept and ask for advice

Hope you can help
Thanks

fraud is generally considered serious enough to be gross misconduct, and potentially you can be dismissed for this without notice, after a hearing has taken place

the letter inviting you to the disciplinary hearing will usually state that in the event you don't turn up the hearing will be heard without your input which may affect the hearing adversely from your point of view. usually employers will be reasonable about rescheduling these, but usually within a few days, not weeks. if you are signed off with stress then it may not be considered a serious enough issue to prevent you from attending the hearing, whilst if you were in hospital or unable to walk then that's another matter. it's not uncommon for people to try and duck out of disciplinarys by not turning up

you can resign at any time, but of course you will be required to give notice, thus you could be dismissed before your resignation date. you could resign without notice and the employer can file counter notice (ie. not accept you leaving without notice) and dismiss you, but generally if the employer was going to dismiss you they would prefer you resigned and didn't return to work

yes, you should speak to HR. you should also speak to ACAS about this, and your union rep if you have one

i'm not clear about your mileage claim. can you elaborate on this. is it a company car and you are supposed to send in a weekly/monthly mileage report with a breakdown of company and personal mileage? or is it your private car and you send in a mileage claim and give a breakdown of personal milage? i'm wondering why such a large discrepancy went unnoticed as surely these figures should tie in with the mileage meter on the car, thus you start off on 1st of the month with x miles, end up with z miles, the difference being y and that is split between A personal miles and B business miles. it's hard to see how such a mistake could happen for a 3 year period without being spotted, and that's what your employer will ask you to explain. it sounds like you haven't been keeping sufficient logs of your miles, potentially this could affect tax returns, so may be quite a serious problem

if you come clean about it and pay the difference, you may get away with a final written warning, and as long as you don't do the same thing again you will be fine. whilst it shouldn't affect the outcome, the reality may be that if you are signed off sick for stress etc, they may take the opportunity to end your employment and not give you a second chance so they don't have to pay sick pay or manage your absence

[Lucio]

I believe the issue regarding mileage is because it's taxable and must be reported to HMRC. Providing inaccurate information can lead to the company being prosecuted by HMRC for tax fraud.

With regards to defending yourself, you need to be able to demonstrate that it was a mistake, this may involve providing samples of your mileage forms where you miswrote a figure from one to another, or a photo of your odometer showing it's hard to read.

With regards to the credit card useage, I'd suggest using bank statements to prove that you were able to pay for the misclaimed goods at the time, if you can't do that, then it may be construed that you were borrowing company money without permission (e.g. frauduently)

[santa claus]

This seems to be a case of what will be, will be. Attend the meeting and provide honest answers. You won't be dismissed if you can explain your errors as genuine. Whatever you do, don't try to blag your way through or try to apportion blame to your manager; if there is room for manoevre, you won't do yourself any favours if your answers at the meeting appear misleading.

If you have access to Occupational Health, contact them. Your health needs this issue to be resolved asap.

Dismissal is possible but not probable imho. That sounds like the standard pre-meeting warning. If you are dismissed, it is not the end of the world and you will need to be more attentive with these kinds of affairs in future.

Get this mess sorted before it affects your health further; that is the most important issue. Good luck.

[pauldarkside]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone is able to give me any advice on my situation...
I was recently suspended from my job further to an expenses audit, the audit found that i had been mis claiming my mileage for 3 years (since i started) i basically did not realise id claimed 10,000 miles less than my car had done (this is both business mile and private miles) i also put 3 items by mistake on my company credit card but paid these back. I was called to an investigation meeting where i explained the reason for the misclaiming mileage - my mistake, different routes taken etc and expected all to be fine - it is worth mentioning i had refered this issue to my manager previously and he had told me not to worry!!! I have now been advised i must attend a disciplinary meeting where the outcome could be dissmissal (a collegue has recently resigned for a similar reason however she was claiming for groceries also!)

Firstly is this a sackable offfence as i had raised the issue and it wasa genuine mistake?
Secondly i have now been signed off due to stress and depression - are they able to dismiss me while i am signed off? or even carry out the meeting?
Thirdly if i attend the meeting and it does not go well is it too late to resign at this point?
And my last question is should I call the manager / HR dept and ask for advice

Hope you can help
Thanks

If it weren't for the credit card, I'd have thought you were a politician.

Now, no offense to those trying to help but I think you're better off getting hold of the Citizens Advice Bureau or even the Job Centre, they'll point you in the right direction. Expecting answers from what's generally a tech forum seems a little irresponsible considering what you do could effect future working prospects.

My advice? Go get some proper advice. This isn't a hospital, a doctor's surgery or a legal advice clinic.

[Unique]

If it weren't for the credit card, I'd have thought you were a politician.

Now, no offense to those trying to help but I think you're better off getting hold of the Citizens Advice Bureau or even the Job Centre, they'll point you in the right direction. Expecting answers from what's generally a tech forum seems a little irresponsible considering what you do could effect future working prospects.

My advice? Go get some proper advice. This isn't a hospital, a doctor's surgery or a legal advice clinic.

ACAS is the body that provides free and confidential employment law advice. the job centre don't, and CAB are a jack of all trades master of none body. ACAS only deal with employment law, thus staff are trained and experienced to deal with these issues on a daily basis. all tribunal complaints are passed to ACAS before tribunal

[pauldarkside]

ACAS is the body that provides free and confidential employment law advice. the job centre don't, and CAB are a jack of all trades master of none body. ACAS only deal with employment law, thus staff are trained and experienced to deal with these issues on a daily basis. all tribunal complaints are passed to ACAS before tribunal

Like I said, they'll point you in the right direction...

Back in my teenage years, I had a boss trying to withold my pay. Went to the JC, they put me in touch with ACAS with the CAB providing free representation (they also have specialists, not just those on the front line). Mine wasn't a serious case so I didn't need more formal legal help. Still, I won and got my money. I'd say they're better than accepting random advice from a Google search.

[Unique]

Like I said, they'll point you in the right direction...

Back in my teenage years, I had a boss trying to withold my pay. Went to the JC, they put me in touch with ACAS with the CAB providing free representation (they also have specialists, not just those on the front line). Mine wasn't a serious case so I didn't need more formal legal help. Still, I won and got my money. I'd say they're better than accepting random advice from a Google search.

it's not the job centers responsibility to offer this kind of advice, so you are open to whoever you speak to and how they opt to treat your query. the quality of advice will vary. when you know the appropriate body to offer advice, it's obviously pointless sending someone to another body first, in the hope that they in turn might point them to the correct body that you could have told them about in the first place

regarding CAB, they are a great organisation, but they are mainly staffed by volunteers, most of which are part time, and they handle all sorts of ad hoc queries for anything from consumer advice to housing issues. the staff generally don't work full time, and from the time they do work, they only deal with employment law issues for part of the time, thus they have considerably less training and experience than ACAS who employ mainly full time permanent paid staff who are trained and experienced to handle specifically employment law advice and offer that advice each and every hour of their working week

both organisations are free and confidential, but with one specifically dealing with employment law, ACAS should always be the first port of call when seeking employment law advice. they will recommend to callers if they should seek further legal advice, such as speaking to a lawyer, or recommend seeking the help of CAB if appropriate

going to CAB first is like asking a handyman to rewire your house instead of an electrician. this may be understandable if there is a financial cost involved and you want to do something on the cheap, but it makes no sense when there is no financial cost to the caller. if anything, you should call ACAS first and then speak to CAB if you want a second opinion, but calling CAB over ACAS is a poor choice