Buyer beware? - home ownership

[Andeh13]

Hey guys, quick question here.

I moved into a house a couple of months ago, the owners seemed very reasonable (left me a welcome card etc) and everything proceeded without a hitch. For the last few weeks however I have been unable to get the central heating system/hot water to work. I have followed the instructions, googled it, and had a friend of mine round (an elec engineer) to give it a go as well. As far as we can tell it is definitely not working. It is a warm air system, and we have followed the instructions to the letter yet the pilot light refuses to stay lit. When buying cars I know it is very much buyer beware, but is it the case with houses as well?

I have contacted the estate agent several times over the last few weeks asking him to request information from the previous owners on how they worked it/if there is a bit of a knack to operating the system. I am planning on replacing it within the next few weeks (3 weeks waiting list), but I don’t fancy not having central heating in that time (especially with my partner and 15month old daughter visiting me a few times during that period).

Where do I stand on this? The estate agents have explained they can’t pass on the contact details of the previous owners to me & they have tried ringing them and e-mailing them, but without a reply.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated!

edit: Thinking about I paid a tidy sum for a survery to be conducted, and AFAIK I dont remember any mention of the central heating being tested (Though I have a nasty feeling it may have been put down as ''looks alright, not tested''). Will have a closer look at home but do home surveys usually cover this sort fo thing?

[Andeh13]

Excuse the title I ment to hit backspace and hit enter by mistake. If a mod can change it to 'Buyer beware? - home ownership' I would be grateful! )

edit: Managed to do it myself, so please disregard!

[oolon]

If its central heating your screwed, if you wanted it to work you should have had it tested before you bought the house (normal survey does not do this). Unless the vendor claimed it was working in documentation to your Lawyer the there is nothing you can do. All sales are final, the only recourse is to law, and that is expensive particularly if you lose.

We are buying a house at the moment as well, have decided "run the risk" with the heating as its probably going to have to be removed anyway, like wise with the electrics. We are having the damp and woodworm checked out as the survey suggests. You can keep pouring money into a house to get things check or you have to take some risks. This is why you should never spend up to your limit as something will always be not quite as you expect.

[Domestic_Ginger]

How long does it stay lit for and is the return hot? (where the water comes back into the boiler).

It may be going out because its overheating. The hot water out bit may very hot in this case.

Buying a house is pants.

[Rob_B]

When we bought our house we had a clause that said 'any faults to be reported within X weeks of completion' - Check your paperwork.

You can change thread titles yourself, either go into Advanced edit mode or double click to the right of the thread title in the main forum view.

[oolon]

Actually it might not be your heating at all. When does it go out? If it when you turn on other gas things like your cooker you have a problem with you gas supply, it would be best to call out the national grid if you think you have a supply problem (its free) however if they find a fault with your equipment (cooker, heating) they may disconnect it. With ours the regulator valve on the supply was broken, so it was not regulating it correctly it should give a constant pressure. Sadly however they decided there was also a fault with out hub so disconnected that! Ho Hum... all fixed now.

[Domestic_Ginger]

Surveys don't cover central heating iirc. Its usually just the building. DO you have hot water?

[peterb]

Don't think you get a warranty from the previous sellers. As Oolon says, it is up to you to determine the condition, and a survey is really only for the fabric of the place,. If you require specific items tested, you have to arrange your own test/survey etc. Same with the things like drains - the survey doesn't do a comprehensive inspection, so if they block a week after you move in, even if it was due to a fault or action by the previous owners - it is down to you to fix. Sorry - but hats the way it is. It really is Buyerr Beware.

As for the heating - it may be the flame failure device. If it is an oldish system, it will just be a simple thermocouple. They do fail, or you may find that the connection is poor. The connection back is through what looks like a copper tube about 2 to 4 mm diameter. That terminates at the gas (if it is gas) control valve through a union connection. Removing that, wiping the contact in the centre and replacing it may fix it, otherwise a replacement is less than a tenner at somewhere like plumb centre or other plumbers merchant and it usually isn't difficult to fit.

Howeverr - if it is a gas appliance, legally the repairer should either be done by a CORGI certified tradesman, or if you do it yourself, the work must be checked and tested by a CORGI tradesman before it is recommissioned. (I think the same general rules apply to oil fired appliances as well)

If it is a more modern heater that doesn't have a permanent pilot light, the flame failure detection is more complex and you will definitely need an expert to diagnose and repair it.

But if you have having the system replaced soon, you would probably be able to get by on a couple or electric fan heaters or oil filled radiators - and check the long range weather forecast.

[Andeh13]

Thought it might be the case of buyer beware, but figured I'd better check first. When we bought the house it was the estate agents who showed me round & we looked at it but neither of us could work it, he said they had some young children so doubted there would be an issue. The rest of the house seemed to be in good condition so I assumed the heating would work as well.


We managed to find a knob that when held in sent gas to the Pilot light, which we had to light manually. Holding in the starter switch didnt do anything. As soon as we released this knob the gas would stop & pilot light would go out. The pilot light also seemed far bigger then I think it should have been. This is with no other gas appliances turned on, however botht he gas hob & gas fire in the lounge work fine. The systems should create the hot water as well, but does not!


edit: It is an old system, and I recognise the wire you mentioned peterb. Should much of a current be traveling through the wire to create the spark? (I image yes as it creates the spark, but without any insulation on it I'm somewhat confused)

[rox0r]

Peterb, it's no longer CORGI, a heating engineer must be on the Gas Safe Register.

[Kata]

Within 6 months of buying my place, the drains had horribly clogged (that was within a week), and the boiler died! Bloody houses...

[oolon]

You may not know how to light it right. Normally there is a knob to turn, this turns the gas on, you then have to light the flame, while still turning the knob, after 30 seconds the thermocouple should be warm enough to keep the gas on and you can release to knob. This is a safety without it if they gas supply was cut to the house, the pilot would go out, when it was restored gas would leak from the pilot light and in time build to an explosive amount.

[peterb]

Peterb, it's no longer CORGI, a heating engineer must be on the Gas Safe Register.

Thank you - I had a feeling it had changed, but CORGI is/was quite an iconic 'brand!

Anfdehh - there are two of those connectors - one is the thermocouple, the other is a wire from a piezoelectric- spark generator. If the pilot is igniting, you are getting a spark. You need to hold the knob down for at least 30 seconds after the pilot has ignited to let the thermocouple heat up. (a minute should certainly be ample). When you release the knob (you may have to turn it a bit further) the main burner should fire if the system is calling for heat.

[Andeh13]

From what i can gather it does sound like the thermocouple has given up the ghost.

The 'knob' we've been holding in is the manual gas release, lighting the pilot light from this manually (push button lighter doesnt seem to work) and holding it should allow the thermocouple to heat up...allowing the gas to start flowing normally. This means it the pilot light gets blown out, the thermocouple cools down and shuts the gas flow off. Is this right?


edit: posted at the same time as some of you, think I have the above right though. When I get home later (posting from work - slow day) I will try and hold it for longer to make sure everything warms up properly, the push button lighter doesnt seem to work so i think that may have given up the ghost. In theory this just means I have to use a match to light it - but that should work fine i'm guessing?

[oolon]

Sounds like the supply problem with had, no mater how we adjusted the pilot it would be pulled out when the main kicked in, locking out the gas when it cooled (30 minutes). The problem was the demand value before the supply meter, get it checked. You can do a simple test for the thermocouple, if the pilot light comes on before the main kicks (turn the system off) in and stays lit for 5 minutes (without holding the knob) the thermocouple is just fine.

I paid someone quite a lot of money to not fix our heating (He kept having to phone a friend) so when the Gas board came round (Nation Grid) the guy explained it all to me as I was interested, and good my documentation to just to get the technician stuck off!

[petercook7]

Hey guys, quick question here.

I moved into a house a couple of months ago, the owners seemed very reasonable (left me a welcome card etc) and everything proceeded without a hitch. For the last few weeks however I have been unable to get the central heating system/hot water to work. I have followed the instructions, googled it, and had a friend of mine round (an elec engineer) to give it a go as well. As far as we can tell it is definitely not working. It is a warm air system, and we have followed the instructions to the letter yet the pilot light refuses to stay lit. When buying cars I know it is very much buyer beware, but is it the case with houses as well?

I have contacted the estate agent several times over the last few weeks asking him to request information from the previous owners on how they worked it/if there is a bit of a knack to operating the system. I am planning on replacing it within the next few weeks (3 weeks waiting list), but I don’t fancy not having central heating in that time (especially with my partner and 15month old daughter visiting me a few times during that period).

Where do I stand on this? The estate agents have explained they can’t pass on the contact details of the previous owners to me & they have tried ringing them and e-mailing them, but without a reply.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated!

edit: Thinking about I paid a tidy sum for a survery to be conducted, and AFAIK I dont remember any mention of the central heating being tested (Though I have a nasty feeling it may have been put down as ''looks alright, not tested''). Will have a closer look at home but do home surveys usually cover this sort fo thing?

legal issuse now chances are you could get the boiler replaced as its not in working order, someone else on another forum had the same issue years ago and won something do with purchased property in summer and found out boiler wasnt working 4 months later the EA doesnt have to get involved, they are there to just link buyer with seller thats all.