Andrea Merkel “Multiculturalism has failed miserably”

[j1979]

http://olehgirl.com/?p=4895

so as many of Europe's leaders see the problem of integration failing.. where do we go from here? from other threads here at hexus on similar issues, i get the feeling people are split down the middle. Some feel integration is happening and successful. I agree that integration is happening with most minorities, but i also feel that Islam, as has been said before is "incompatible with western culture and values". I also feel that the government of the last 15 years is partly responsible, for letting things get to this stage. Political correctness / the thought police - are just the modern toned down way of altering peoples political views. We are made to feel guilty about any statement that may rock the boat, or made to feel as if we are perhaps racist or right wing. We have not been able to have open debate, for the fear of being labelled racist, as a nation sweeping the issue under the carpet. Not that political correctness makes much of a difference, Muslims don't want to integrate, because they don't like European culture, it begs the question why not go somewhere where they do like the culture?

[Terbinator]

Godwins Law.

Edit: While i don't have a Koran (Qua'ran?) next to me, and also don't want to be smote by anyone thinking I'm some sort of bigot... Don't Muslims believe, or at least read, that they should spread far and wide maybe not killing the non-believers but at least making them the minority in the hope they will see the error of their ways and convert? Moving into Europe might be the poo end of the stick but someone has to do it, may as well get the 40 (is it 40, because it seems to change everyday - not like you can ask someone either i suppose) virgins why the goings good and all while in the name of the cause.

[j1979]

Godwins Law.

yes comparisons between Islam and National Socialism are obvious.

[j1979]

Don't Muslims believe, or at least read, that they should spread far and wide maybe not killing the non-believers but at least making them the minority in the hope they will see the error of their ways and convert?

the irony being that the die hard non-believers, will probably become suicide bombers. shouting "in the name of Darwin" before taking out a group of innocents

[Terbinator]

the irony being that the die hard non-believers, will probably become suicide bombers. shouting "in the name of Darwin" before taking out a group of innocents

At least Darwin was real though, eh ?

In all seriousness, i personally think the integration thing is failing. There is way too much exposure to the fundamentals of either side (lets not lie, its basically a religion v religion or religion v rationalists) for society to work all happy as Larry and instead the more moderates can't a.) get they're point across and b.) get cast as one of the loonies.

I dread to think what it will be like a few more years down the line.

[chrestomanci]

Don't Muslims believe, or at least read, that they should spread far and wide maybe not killing the non-believers but at least making them the minority in the hope they will see the error of their ways and convert?

It is not just Muslims, all human societies througout history have done that.

Good examples would be the Bantu explosion, where a small group of farmers from where Nigeria is now invented cattle ranching around 1500 BC, became very successful, and expanded to fill most of Sub-Saharan Africa. In the process the most of the pre-existing hunter-gather populations disappeared.

Or for a more recent example, look at the way Europeans filled the Americas in the second half of the last millennium. (1492-1900). Again most of the local people died from disease or war, or lost their lands and starved. It is not just Muslims who want to expand and displace native populations. We are all just a guilty.

[Barrichello]

Why do you need multiculturalism when your religion will become the overwhelming demographic in a short space of time?

This is no surprise. Merkel is only talking about what Germany already realised and reported on back in 2009 - that Germany will be a Muslim state by 2050...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

[Terbinator]

It is not just Muslims, all human societies througout history have done that.

Good examples would be the Bantu explosion, where a small group of farmers from where Nigeria is now invented cattle ranching around 1500 BC, became very successful, and expanded to fill most of Sub-Saharan Africa. In the process the most of the pre-existing hunter-gather populations disappeared.

Or for a more recent example, look at the way Europeans filled the Americas in the second half of the last millennium. (1492-1900). Again most of the local people died from disease or war, or lost their lands and starved. It is not just Muslims who want to expand and displace native populations. We are all just a guilty.

Muslims aren't a nation though are they. Likewise I don't know if Columbus was told to go forth and find America because the big G told him so, or the bible suggested it.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

There are people from other cultures and religions who also live in Europe too - so why is that every time there is a problem with Islam or Muslim people everyone else is also tarred with the same brush?

[j1979]

There are people from other cultures and religions who also live in Europe too - so why is that every time there is a problem with Islam or Muslim people everyone else is also tarred with the same brush?

they are not tarred with the same brush..we have had minorities here for centuries, the Romani are the only one that i can think of that have never integrated. But they don't have a terrorist element. they just sell overpriced toffee apples

[Terbinator]

But Toffee Apples are nice

[Peter Parker]

Why do you need multiculturalism when your religion will become the overwhelming demographic in a short space of time?

This is no surprise. Merkel is only talking about what Germany already realised and reported on back in 2009 - that Germany will be a Muslim state by 2050...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Woooaaahhh there. Hold on a minute. That video's got about as much credibility as the wikipedia links I'm about to give you. Here's a critical look at some of the claims, such as the rather ludicrous 8.1 children per family:

http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/0...-demographics/

Another source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_i...pe#Projections - reckons that by the end of this century, 20% of Europe might be Muslim. Or 100% or all Europe could have died due to asteroid strike, influenza outbreak, giant mutant space goat (see H2G2). You never can tell when trying to make a scaremongering YouTube video.

Here's another point of view. Most Muslims I've met are quite reasonable and nice. Some plus points for them:-

• They come from places with nice food
• They're usually polite rather than alcoholic ASBOs
• They're less likely to believe in homeopathy, cupping, magnetic bracelets, crystals and other voodoo
• They can explain the rules of cricket to me

I'm not defending them particularly here, I'm just trying to point out that they may not be any better or worse than other segments of humanity. I can equally point out the horror stories about terrorists, honour killings, etc etc, but that's a handful of cases, despite what some media might have you believe.

So the other thing I find annoying is the definition of a group of people with just one word like "Muslim" or "Catholic" for example. One word to convey so much about millions/billions of people. That's awesome generalisation, better than my list above. How many people identify themselves as Christian but don't go to church? Perhaps that's what'll happen to Muslims that settle in Europe. They or their children will just find life comfortable and relaxed enough to not practice their religion. Unfortunately they'll probably just end up watching "Europe's got z-list celebrity idols dancing on ice" and become another meaningless subsegment of the Idiocracy type society.

[Terbinator]

[*]They're less likely to believe in homeopathy, cupping, magnetic bracelets, crystals and other voodoo

On the contrary, all form of religions believe in the biggest voodoo of them all.

[Peter Parker]

On the contrary, all form of religions believe in the biggest voodoo of them all.

Meh, perhaps. I'm not religious but I can see a social benefit in the basics like telling people not to kill or steal (if only any of them believed it ). However I'm still struggling with the claims that the super diluted water-with-nothing-else-in-it will cure HIV or relieve the pain of child birth or whatever it is they're peddling.

[j1979]

So the other thing I find annoying is the definition of a group of people with just one word like "Muslim" or "Catholic" for example. One word to convey so much about millions/billions of people. That's awesome generalisation, better than my list above. How many people identify themselves as Christian but don't go to church? Perhaps that's what'll happen to Muslims that settle in Europe. They or their children will just find life comfortable and relaxed enough to not practice their religion. Unfortunately they'll probably just end up watching "Europe's got z-list celebrity idols dancing on ice" and become another meaningless subsegment of the Idiocracy type society.

i agree with most of what you said. the video is designed to evoke fear, and probably only loosely based on any real facts.

and i hope that Islam is watered down, because the people who consider themselves Christians but don't go to church probably believe in Evolution but I've not met a single Muslim yet who can even entertain the idea. Did you see that Richard Dawkins program about faith schools?

btw.. how did you get an avatar without 500 posts?

[Peter Parker]

Did you see that Richard Dawkins program about faith schools?

btw.. how did you get an avatar without 500 posts?

I did indeed. It's as scary as the fundamentalist Christians in the USA. Always amuses me that these two groups might have so much in common given the way they feel about each other.

I'm personally against faith schools of any type. The state shouldn't provide support for any religious group. Next thing you know we'll have a Scientology school. Oh bugger it might be too late - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenfields_School

The avatar? I prayed to god for it a few years back