Do we have too many students?

[scaryjim]

To do a PGCE don't you need a degree?

Yes, but a PGCE isn't the only way to get teaching qualifications. You can do first degrees with QTS (usually primary, although I know at least one college that started doing 3 year degrees with Secondary QTS a few years ago), and there are a few work-based training schemes (basically you work as a classroom assistant and do teaching qualifications at the same time) although I don't know any specific details about those I'm afraid...

[santa claus]

The trouble is that the World just ain't fair. The "but-I-have-a-degree" whine no longer cuts any ice in the business world. You might even be rejected for being too 'clever' - it can disrupt teams.

Don't expect Uni to give you anything in terms of a career and you won't be disappointed. Have fun and learn stuff by all means but you'll be lucky if your aspirations match reality when you come out these days .

Don't shoot the messenger.

ps good thread Saracen.

[planet436]

To do a PGCE don't you need a degree?

To get a the PGCE (postgrad qualification) you do need a degree. There are other ways of entering into the profession that don't necessarily need a degree, via the GTP education-based route, but usually they would consider experienced people from an industry but don't have a degree, not the 21yr old accountant who wants to change.

Saying that shortage subjects do not usually require a degree in the subject one wants to teach. On my PGCE Math course around half don't have a scientific degree at all, 3 have postgraduate qualifications in mathematics with the rest joint-math or math undergraduate degrees. Teaching science based stuff without a relevant qualification is possible up to a certain age, once getting to A-level + then you really do need to know your subject well else you simply won't be able to explain concepts properly.

EDIT: On topic the Russell group comments isn't really set in stone since, as someone already said St. Andrews, Bath, Durham, Lancaster and others are not in the group but are eminent universities in their own right. One of the main problems is a serious lack of options for someone finishing school but not wanting to go to university. It is really difficult to get worthwhile apprenticeships since the government doesn't fund or incentivize them properly, and unless they are willing to try setting up their own business the options are limited.

[Whiternoise]

Are there too many students? Not in degrees worth doing. On the plus side, when the tuition fee hikes come in, the arts students will subsidise the sciences even more.

50% is a good figure for people with higher education, but not people with degrees. Higher education could include things like HNDs, vocational courses/apprenticeships, etc.

I'm planning on getting my first, doing a PhD and then buggering off somewhere foreign to do a post-doctorate where science is still valued (perhaps America). As for employment, I'm planning on doing a job that relies on my knowledge of the field and hence actually requires a physics degree. I wouldn't have skipped university for the world, I love my subject, I can go gliding for super-duper cheap and besides the high workload, life is pretty breezy. University has come hand in hand with opportunities for self development that would otherwise not be available - you just have to take advantage of them (i.e. cheap gliding or running socs).

Russell Group universities are misleading anyway. My friend wants to go to Salford (as mention, not an RG uni) simply because it's one of the few places that offers a course in acoustic physics - he wants to go into speaker design or similar. Going to a top uni is good, but only if the degree complements it. If you want a job in a niche area, then by all means find the place that offers the best course - even if it's not Oxbridge. Good employers should know the best spots for their required subject. The same goes for something like IT, as someone mentioned, a relevant qualification like the A+ (which only costs a couple of hundred quid to take the exam) could be seen as more useful than a degree.