Really? Are we in a recession?

[Whiternoise]

Sure doesn't look like it.

Over the last couple of days, the sales have been in full force with the usual crowds pushing and shoving to get their deals (Selfridges have once again reported record sales). My uncle put it succinctly when the BBC showed the rush - "where's all the money coming from?". For all the people that say times are tough, they're being made redundant and they have to tighten their belts there are a lot of people who are happy to grab a "bargain" HD telly. Given that most of the sales are more hype than substance and most of the actual deals are on things that are out of most people's spending budgets (sure, you can save a grand on a sofa, but it was £10k to begin with...), it seems a little odd. Scratch that, it's not odd. It's frankly grotesque that in a time where (alleged) students are rioting over fees increases and the budget is being slashed left right and centre, stores are still willing to cajole people into wasting their money.

One thing we both noticed, during the videos, was this: the people rushing into the big name stores were predominantly foreigners (or at least residents of non-British nationality). This is merely observation, besides my above opinion of spending habits, it's nothing personal. Perhaps we should narrow our focus a bit, it seems that the people with money in Britain aren't Britons. On balance, it would seem that most of the money that's being spent isn't being spent by us.

Maybe it's a good thing that the money pouring into Oxford Street isn't coming from us, but it's a stark contrast to the state of the country.

(PS: The Steam sale is still as epic as usual!)

[peterb]

I suspect there is an element of "beat the VAT increase" there as well.

[MadduckUK]

It's frankly grotesque that in a time where (alleged) students are rioting over fees increases and the budget is being slashed left right and centre, stores are still willing to cajole people into wasting their money.

imagine that

[Barrichello]

One thing we both noticed, during the videos, was this: the people rushing into the big name stores were predominantly foreigners (or at least residents of non-British nationality)

What gives you that idea?

[Consfearacy]

Makes me ill at the thought that they say there is a recession but there is still silly game shows on TV giving away thousands of pounds.

[jim]

The truth is that we just aren't as bad off as we think we are.

Some people are in dire situations, I don't deny it, but a lot of people think they're really suffering when they just aren't. The fact that so many people consider cable/satellite television a necessity is the perfect illustration of that.

100 years ago if you couldn't afford to eat you were considered to be in poverty. Now, the word poverty has lost all real meaning.

A lot of those "suffering" and broken about how the country is in "recession" have found that they now can't have a 50" plasma, they'll have to settle for the 32" LCD in the sale.

[Lucio]

I think you're forgetting that the point of an economy is to keep money moving. Things work best when money flows backwards and forwards between the people who have it and onto the people who don't.

Right now, people spending their money in the sales are giving it to shops who employ other people, who then spend their money in other shops that employ yet more people and so on. In effect, a recession can be made worse by people not spending their money when they would otherwise normally spend it.

[Whiternoise]

Oh I'm sure many people just enjoy whingeing. Students moan about this loan rubbish, but they're the best off out of everyone - myself included. Just don't spend all of it on alcohol and there's quite a lot to be splashed around.

As for satellite TV, that one just annoys me. If you said to me, "Family X" is on benefits (catch-all, I know), I would confidently bet a tenner that their house had a Sky subscription. Oh, so you can't afford to pay the rent this week, but make sure Sky gets to your TV? Bah humbug.

I think you're forgetting that the point of an economy is to keep money moving. Things work best when money flows backwards and forwards between the people who have it and onto the people who don't.

Right now, people spending their money in the sales are giving it to shops who employ other people, who then spend their money in other shops that employ yet more people and so on. In effect, a recession can be made worse by people not spending their money when they would otherwise normally spend it.

Are both fair points. But in that case, people should keep their mouths shut about being destitute one day and then shopping for a big telly the next.

Certainly foreign people spending vast amounts of money in our stores is a very good thing for our economy, those spending big bucks are probably staying in posh accommodation too. I just thought it was interesting examining the demographics that shop in the big sales. Of course this is a nationwide sale, so people in smaller towns are probably predominantly Brits.

[IronWarrior]

I think it's all hype-up and depends on your life style and job.

It's never affected me or my family.

[TooNice]

It's frankly grotesque that in a time where (alleged) students are rioting over fees increases and the budget is being slashed left right and centre, stores are still willing to cajole people into wasting their money.

You are not seriously blaming on the stores for doing what they are meant to do (sell / maximise profit / stay ahead of the competition) are you? To me, that make as much sense as blaming casinos for people's gambling habits, happy hours for binge drinking etc.

As for the foreigner part, sure, London is still an attractive place for many, and you can bet that there are enough to fill up several stores if the expats / middle class tourists from various countries converge in one city.

In general expats are paid pretty well regardless of their nationalities. I am currently in Tokyo, and I've just met up with a friend who is a (British) trainee solicitor. Even as a trainee, the company is giving her an accommodation in a popular location within the city centre (not everyone can afford to live in such location), and it's big enough that whenever a local visits her, they comment that it's a bit of a waste given that it's big enough for 3 even though there is only one bedroom (there is a large living room).

[Zak33]

on Boxing Day, we had to make a journey, though we were far from healthy enough, to Newbury, which from Aylesbury means going to Bicester and then south.

Bicester, has a Retail Outlet shopping "village"

As I went one way,,,, the queue went towards Bicester.... and I swear, it was entirely made up of oriental family's.... miles of cars of oriental family's.

[Whiternoise]

You are not seriously blaming on the stores for doing what they are meant to do (sell / maximise profit / stay ahead of the competition) are you? To me, that make as much sense as blaming casinos for people's gambling habits, happy hours for binge drinking etc.

Blame isn't the word. Shops do as shops do and plenty of people fall into the trap of buying for the sake of buying. I just think it's a bit daft when we've got all these budget cuts that Selfridges harp on about record sales - it doesn't accurately reflect how far we are up the creek as a nation.

I would also argue that the best shops don't need sales and slick assistants to drive profits up. Mostly this applies to independent retailers who are in serious trouble from the type of store you mention. You need to balance price with consumer experience/quality of product and most large chains sacrifice the latter two. Tesco, for instance has excelled at selling and staying ahead of the competition, but I wouldn't shop there to save my life.


Consumers are stupid, life goes on. At least I'm not the only one noticing the lack of Brits shopping though!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Forget about the Sky TV subscriptions! At least this will be for an entire household. Think about the people spending loads of money on 18 to 24 month phone contracts so they can a flashy and overpriced iPhone 4?? Even a "bargain" iPhone 4 contract with very few inclusive minutes seems to be around £500 to £600 over 18 months! In most cases people are not only paying for the iPhone handset up-front but pay at least £30 to £40 a month for two years! So it will be closer to around £900 to £1000 in total!

This is also for only one person in a household.

It seems many people have problems paying utilities bills and council tax but still find the money to be buy a flashy phone on a contract!

[jim]

Agreed. It's a common theme as far as I can tell.

I knew a girl who was working as a teaching assistant at a primary school (you don't need me to tell you that the wages were crap) who managed to keep herself going, and pay for her unemployed boyfriend's (JSA certainly didn't cover it) rent and car, plus 3 holidays abroad for the pair of them each year. He spent all of his day playing on the Xbox 360 on the LCD tv she bought him for Christmas, and of course driving his car that she paid for.

Point is, you don't need a lot of money to survive. People just misinterpret survival.

[usxhe190]

Don't really understand this thread.

People may be holding off buying stuff until the bargains come. Who knows.

I'd rather the stores have sales and not have sales to boost the economy.

[tjpartridge]

I thought we "technically" came out of the recession a few months ago?