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About LinkBacksAs DSR is only a business to consumer contract what is there for Business to Business contracts?
As DSR is only a business to consumer contract what is there for Business to Business contracts?
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1000 years of contract law?
A fair bit of what is regarded as consumer law also applies to B2B, not least of which is much of the Sale of Goods Act.
But it needs to be remembered that the basic point of consumer legislation is to address a fundamental imbalance between the power (and usually wealth) if businesses as opposed to individual consumers. Not least, businesses have the money to get lawyers to write contracts, and the point of consumer law is to ensure those contracts have at least a basic element of fairness.
So the answer to your question is that most of it is basic contract tort for B2B, but the are some modifications, like the SoGA, though even that does have some consumer-only provisions and, for B2B contracts, they can be excluded by mutual agreement (and can not be excluded in consumer contracts).
I take it you've had a supplier problem at work?
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This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!
yes, I ordered the wrong thing (its not expensive) and wanted to return it unused but opened and was told that I couldn'tOriginally Posted by Lucio
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I did that before... thankfully my boss was understanding and wrote it off!
Absolutely sod all I could do, seeing as it was technically my fault.
Legally, probably not a leg to stand on.
But it's very poor customer relations, so perhaps the old "you'll lose future business if you're that intractable" line might work.
they aren't interested
oh its DABS by the way.
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DSR doesn't cover business to business sales, which I've always thought was odd.
No, it's as Saracen says, B2B trade is done entirely on a contractual basis because the assumption is that a business has the means to defend it's own interests and additionally, needs to be free to negotiate different clauses depending on the situation. For example, a bookstore may negotiate a 60 day sale or returns policy with a publisher as an incentive to stock their product more prominently.
More importantly, the DSR regulations are *expensive* for a retailer, because the only provision it makes towards cost is not refunding the carriage charges, totally failing to take into account the time and effort it takes to pick and warehouse the item. If a particularly bulky or arkward item goes out several times before someone finally accepts it, you can end up loosing all your profit margin.
Anyhow Jay, my advice is to accept it, cross DABS off your supplier list at work and move on.
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This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!
Done!
The odd thing was we wanted to buy a much more expensive item (twice the price) to replace this item!
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Outbound carriage charges are to be refunded under the DSR. The only things that aren't are :-
- the cost of getting the goods back to the seller, if that was explicitly stipulated in the sale contract (and it will be if the seller is half-awake). i.e return carriage costs
- extra services that are a separate service
Some retailers would have us believe that outbound shipping is a separate item, but it isn't, because for a mail-order item, by definition, it's going to include having to get the goods to the customer. What would count as extra is, for instance, gift-wrapping. It's always quite possible that it would be if you changed standard delivery to an express service, timed delivery, saturday delivery, etc.
You're right about the DSRs being expensive for retailers, though, or at the very least, potentially so. It's not just carriage charges, either. The only stipulation on customers about the actual goods is that the customer has a duty to take reasonable care of them. That can lead to arguments over what is and is not reasonable. For instance, if you open and inspect goods, and packaging is not reusable (perhaps, plastic clamshells that you have to cut into to be able to inspect, or sealed cardboard boxes), can goods still be sold as "new"?
The DTI guidance to the DSR is very clear on this. The point of the DSR's is to give the buyer reasonable chance to inspect the goods, as you would have had you bought in a shop. The seller can try to assert what is or is not "reasonable" care, but it MUST be able to hold that up in a court as reasonable, and in any event, has to refund the cost (except those return delivery charges) whatever the condition of the goods, and then seek compensation from the customer if they feel reasonable care wasn't taken, by court action if necessary, but they cannot deduct anything from the refund because of condition of the goods. They have to sort it out afterwards, involving (as you say) a potentially serious amount of time and cost.
Yeah, that was my point exactly. I've got a few suppliers on my "not under any circumstances" list because of what, in my opinion, has been poor customer service. And in the opposite direction, I've got a few on my list that I do go to even though I may pay a bit of a premium, precisely because of good customer service. An example of that would be the John Lewis (and Waitrose) group. They may not be cheap, but largely it's because they carry quality products line not cheap tat, and the service is nearly always exemplary, and regularly, goes beyond that.
For instance, I recently wanted some peanut butter. Yeah, I know some of you will shudder at the thought, but I quite like it. And the one I wanted (still do, for that matter) is Skippy. The ONLY place I can find it (unless, he said hopefully, any of you know better) is Costco (or online, or eBay, which I'm not using for foodstuffs) and they only do it in whopping great jars at that. And the nearest Costco for me is about 35 miles away. That's a bit too much of a trek for me just to get peanut butter, never mind having to join a membership club to get in.
Waitrose used to stock it but haven't for a while, so I asked a section manager if they were getting it in again. He said he doubted it, but didn't know why not (or said he didn't, anyway), but we chatted for a few minutes and looked at the range they did carry. Then he suggested I pick one of their current range and he'd "comp" it for me. i.e. it was free. If I liked it, problem solved, and if I didn't, it'd cost me nothing. Now that is customer service.
And, for the record, it's not as good as Skippy, but it's actually quite nice and certainly an acceptable substitute as I don't seem to be able to get Skippy. And the more I have it, the more it's growing on me. And if you're interested, it's the Waitrose "Essential" range, Wholenut peanut butter. It's a little funny in the colour, a bit more brown and less yellow than normal, but it's actually rather nice. My thanks to the nice man in Waitrose.
Skippy was removed from Waitrose because of quality issues I think.
If you want it then.
http://www.americansoda.co.uk/uk/Ame...1.13kg%29.aspx
I have used these guys a few times and they have been really good (even gave me money off long after a money off deal had finished becuase I asked!)
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Thanks for the site, Jay, but as I said, I'm not using online and mail-order for foodstuffs. If anyone knows of a chain or a supermarket that carries it, great. But I can't find one. Not in the UK anyway.
I've certainly seen online stories about it being quality control issues, but I've asked Waitrose outright and they will neither confirm or deny that. They have said, however, that typically, a product disappearing from stock often means that either they have supply problems getting it, or it just isn't selling in adequate volumes and something else gets the shelf space. What the truth of that is is anyone's guess.
It is rather good, isn't it. My household (or, to a little more accurate, I) goes through quite a lot of it
As to the OP, my experience is that if you make enough fuss you'll often get accommodated (had an issue with a Dell netbook recently where the fault lay entirely on our side, but my boss kept prodding and eventually they acquiesced). The question then is whether it's worth the hassle. For us it was, because we're pretty much tied into an exclusive agreement with Dell so we may as well make them earn it, but if you have the flexibility to just cross a supplier off your list and move on then it may well be that it's not worth the hassle (and time) it'd take to get the service you want...
Suppliers aren't obliged to receive returns from their clients.
Depending on your relations with them however, they may take a return if you kick up a fuss and threaten to stop using them.
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