Need a Favour.

[Dareos]

Madduck, my comments were directed at Blitzen who seems to be launching an attack on Nibblers request and reasons by comparing it to money spent on war.

I do not agree with war in general, I accept it happens, but I dont like it and I dont want any part of it. If more money was poured into education all over the world, then perhaps we would have less of it, who knows, i certainly don't.

However, Britain's leaders and their allies seem to want to pick and choose who they go to war with, when it benefits them. If we are so staunch on human rights then why are we not declaring no fly zones over China, why has the blood diamond situation not been stamped out, why are south american and central american cartels controlling peoples lives by force?

Blitzen bringing this into a discussion over Education in this country and making a personal attack on Nibblers post annoys me greatly, especially when his argument is all about an unrelated subject.

[nibbler]

Thanks for the extra details nibbler - my post wasn't meant to start off any arguments so sorry if it did.

I've seen similar 'strategic fit' decisions being made in several situations, and sometimes it genuinely isn't about cost, at least in the short term, but it can be the case that it's easier to put a case for future funding if there is a clear strategic direction and you've shown willing to increase focus in the past.

It does sound like DACE has an important role to play locally, but I can also see how it might not fit with the university's vision. Perhaps it would be better spun off into a separate organisation, and just hire university facilities. If it's financially sound then it should still be, and if it's of local value the university might even be able to make a case for providing facilities at reduced costs etc.

Not at all, why should you sign a petition before you know more about it?

[MadduckUK]

Madduck, my comments were directed at Blitzen who seems to be launching an attack on Nibblers request and reasons by comparing it to money spent on war.

that waqs in response to CAT-V's comparison.

I do not agree with war in general, I accept it happens, but I dont like it and I dont want any part of it. If more money was poured into education all over the world, then perhaps we would have less of it, who knows, i certainly don't.

dunno either tbh, getting money into education rather than it being sucked up by people like GD sounds unlikely to happen though

However, Britain's leaders and their allies seem to want to pick and choose who they go to war with, when it benefits them. If we are so staunch on human rights then why are we not declaring no fly zones over China, why has the blood diamond situation not been stamped out, why are south american and central american cartels controlling peoples lives by force?

no fly zones over China? Jesus Christ - yes the Libyan air force was rubbish, but lets not jump to the other extreme!

Blitzen bringing this into a discussion over Education in this country and making a personal attack on Nibblers post annoys me greatly, especially when his argument is all about an unrelated subject.

I don't feel he is wholly responsible for that turn, as i said - although he is involved with.. and does raise valid points.

[nibbler]

How about we don't argue, sign it if you think it's worth it, or don't if you think it's not?

[blueball]

signed.

[TooNice]

Off-topic, sorry:

However, Britain's leaders and their allies seem to want to pick and choose who they go to war with, when it benefits them. If we are so staunch on human rights then why are we not declaring no fly zones over China, why has the blood diamond situation not been stamped out, why are south american and central american cartels controlling peoples lives by force?

It's not just the UK's leaders and allies who pick their fights. War is expensive, and I doubt even the US can economically afford to be everywhere even IF we were so staunch on human rights. So you are down to two choices:

1: We do nothing. Heck, we could probably make a good deal with those dictators IF it is ONLY about the oil. It's arguably lower risk, if the mass / rebels complain we can just claim it's none of our business. Incidentally, it's exactly China's stance in Africa.

2: We pick our fights. We MAY be able to strike an even better deal with the rebel / future government, but this may be offset by the cost of the war. There are certainly risks involved, even economical. IF we succeed, it provides the POSSIBILITY of a better future for the mass.

To me, option 2 doesn't seem rational unless one feel that this possibility is a worthy cause. Sure our government may be acting in self-interest too, but war is such a big decision that I doubt it's made without more than one consideration.

After that, it's the politician's job to sell us the reasons that are easiest to sell. It may well be that the reason is secondary but it doesn't make the cause necessarily less 'worthy'.

Should we be fair and do nothing / try to do everything even if it bankrupt us? Or should we be unfair and seek mutual gains. I suspect that not everyone will agree one answer.

[Blitzen]

I actually asked a question in my first post regarding would Nibbler be concerned as much if his mum didn't work there? That's not have a dig.......that's a fair question.

You are at whats wrong with this country.

It makes me vomit to hear people like you spout about things you know NOTHING about accept for what you see on the news or your daily tabloid.
You really need to grow a pair and look at the REAL world.

His mothers job is at risk due to cutbacks in education, his families means of support is at risk. An educational institute in Glasgow is downsizing a department that appears to be pulling its weight and is generally well regarded and you claim his comments are stupid and ill thought out?

instead you promote warmongering and violence, british troops on foreign soil and loss of british soldiers lives over Education.

I was a 'British Troop on Foreign Soil', and was for many years in the late 80's to 2000. Maybe if you havd come with me, you would see the world for what it is, rather than some fantasy computer game.
In fact, i was probably in Kosovo while you were still attached to mumsie (if you were even born then).

Blitzen bringing this into a discussion over Education in this country and making a personal attack on Nibblers post annoys me greatly, especially when his argument is all about an unrelated subject

If you cared to (or had the ability to) have read the thread, you would noticed the CAT-THE-FIFTH started bleating about the war....not me.
So...wind your neck in, and read a thread before having a comment as you have made yourself sound pretty foolish.

[TheAnimus]

I was a 'British Troop on Foreign Soil', and was for many years in the late 80's to 2000. Maybe if you havd come with me, you would see the world for what it is, rather than some fantasy computer game.
In fact, i was probably in Kosovo while you were still attached to mumsie (if you were even born then).

You know dear old Friedrich might agree with you that you would have to see something in posistion of power, maybe through the barrel of a gun before you can understand it.

Regrettably I think of him as a mad crank. This is not an original view either.

The point is that Nibbler has posted this because he has a personal connection, he would probably not know about it were it not for that. This does not make it wrong, this does not make it a failure to take into account the big picture automatically.

If the department is profitable, providing a service which is inline with what we are supposed to be achieving then the question is why cut it, its profitable after all.

It is very true that people are often overly concerned with local issues, don't get me started on my parents and the fact the south west is now getting water subsidised, if its high prices due to seasonal demand then how about a water meter... No its high prices because everyone sprays it on their gardens. So right now because so many people were wanting to avoid having a water meter put in, so they could keep inappropriate plants, they are getting a subsidy whilst elsewhere we are making cut backs to really useful services like CAB, which in my view are essential to distributing knowledge to insure a fair free market.....

However you can't automatically dissmiss a conerne because of someone have local knowledge, if you did you would dissmiss important things too.

[jim]

Good question Kal, and great answer Nibbler - wouldn't have signed otherwise but seems a convincing argument and given some of the inefficiencies in universities these days cutting out the few bits that actually are efficient is ridiculous. Signed.

[merdat]

Signed

[format]

Signed.

[aidanjt]

Signed.

[Dareos]

I was a 'British Troop on Foreign Soil', and was for many years in the late 80's to 2000. Maybe if you havd come with me, you would see the world for what it is, rather than some fantasy computer game.
In fact, i was probably in Kosovo while you were still attached to mumsie (if you were even born then).

If you cared to (or had the ability to) have read the thread, you would noticed the CAT-THE-FIFTH started bleating about the war....not me.
So...wind your neck in, and read a thread before having a comment as you have made yourself sound pretty foolish.

It was Cat that mentioned the military first, fair enough, for that I apologise, tired and bleary eyed at work, made a mistake.

As for the the military, all that means to me is that you were a pawn with a gun at the behest of a corrupt politician, and i'm 35, so not exactly still attached to mumsie, at least not in a physica sense.

Perhaps back in WW1 and WW2 there was a legitimate reason for Britain to put troops into war, for the protection of this country and others around it, but the most recent wars have simply been about money and power, sickening

[Blitzen]

As for the the military, all that means to me is that you were a pawn with a gun

That's a very shallow view, but not totally incorrect.
Would I have just been a 'pawn with a gun' when on patrol in Ireland, and trying to stop terrorist activity on the mainland?
I do not see it like that, and i still believe that the guys i served with (Royal Marines), are the best fighting force on the face of the planet (with maybe the exception of the Gurkhas), so i like to think i was a fair bit beyond just being a pawn with a gun or plain ole cannon fodder.

[Dareos]

Fair point and well made, my evaluation was a little cheeky.

I do see the need for armed forces, I do not think they are always deployed correctly and its the lack of choice by individuals in the forces, other than the choice to obey or not, is what gets me.

I wish the world was a better place where it was surplus to requirements, sadly this is not the case, and neither are we in the situation of some of our European cousins where the army is minimal and standard of living high (as are taxes, to be fair) and education is paramount.

Again this situation has come about from our countries military endeavours in the past and our current need to hang on to parts of the world far removed from our own to remain a world power. Sometimes i just wish that wasn't on the agenda but the improvement of our people and country as a whole was.

I do not mean to belittle the role of the soldier, indeed i have several friends in the RAF at Lossie (not for long) and a fair few folks i play online games with and have known for years are in some part of the forces. I have a lot of respect for anyone willing to put their life on the line to keep us safe, from direct conflict or terrorism or anything else in that line.

What does get me though, is where the orders come from, there has been obvious corruption in our governments for centuries, backhanders and bribes, insider deals and basically people out to line their own pockets instead of serving their country, and they are putting soldiers lives on the line in conflicts that they choose to, simply because the money will dry up if they dont.

Once again I will apologise for any abruptness or deliberate obtuseness on my part, put it down to me being tired please.


Sorry also for the hijack Nibbler, need to get this back on topic

[badass]

Fair point and well made, my evaluation was a little cheeky.

I do see the need for armed forces, I do not think they are always deployed correctly and its the lack of choice by individuals in the forces, other than the choice to obey or not, is what gets me.

That is the only way the military can operate. A team of trained soldiers following orders of a commander that is 75% correct will decimate a team of trained soldiers that keep doing their own thing every time tehy think their commander is wrong.
Orders must be followed. However I don't say orders must be followed "without question"
The choice is in whether to join an organisation that amongst other things is used as a political tool and I don't disagree with using the military in politics.
What I do disagree with is the shambolic way that soldiers severaly injured/disabled in combat are treated afterwards.
Organisations like help for heroes should simply not be necessary to exist.