Heads Up : The Apprentice .....

[Saracen]

Gotta love the "Jedi mind trick" moment in the board room. And what was that wink in the end? I've got some more comments about last night's episode, but I'll save it for later.

I guess Sugar has his own specific requirements in mind when he decides who to fire, and of course, we don't see the whole thing, just the edited results. But that, to my way of thinking, ought to have got the PM fired on it's own.

Beautifully played my Jim, though.

PM : I'm bringing Jim in.

Jim: That's wrong, it ought to be be Glenn.

PM: Okay, I'm bringing Glenn in.

Glenn: That's wrong. It shouldn't be me? What do you think, Jim?

Jim: The PMs made his decision and it's final.

That's a précis, not quotes, by the way. But I agreed with Karen when she said she, Nick and sugar were entirely gob-smacked when they watched that happen. How Leon didn't get fired on the spot amazes me. He'll have to buck his ideas up if he wants to last much longer.

[Saracen]

Usually the tasks are about making money. They got free development, free studio time and free publicity, and made a free app. Then Alan bangs on about how anyone can go out and make an app and make money. Also I did like the lack of an iPhone app, because apple take however long they feel like to 'approve' apps before they go on the app store.

All true, of course.

But I wonder exactly what Sugar had in mind with this task. Whatever he says, they aren't all about making money, or at least, not directly about that.

While it's dangerous to over-analyse, if I were a candidate (and I wouldn't even consider doing it), one question I'd be asking myself every week is exactly what Sugar is hoping to see .... or not see. Is it selling ability, leading ability, ability to work together, planning ability, researching, time management ....or just the ability to properly read the brief, and do what it asks, not what you think it asks, having skimmed it.

It always amuses me how a bunch of supposedly prime candidates nearly always seem to make some fundamental goofs. And Sugar did, for example, point out the "world wide" nature of the market for this task, and the boys largely missed it, even though they did mention it.

[stavroshamster]

supposedly prime candidates

I think the idea that these people are 'prime candidates' is the problem - clearly some of them must have some business sense, but more important to their selection for the programme is going to be whether they are interesting to watch (which in the Apprentice's case seems to involve a requirement to be an arrogant tool).

I always like the descriptions of their current jobs which make them sound like high flyers when actually they work in an estate agency or as an accountant, or for a fast food chain. My mate works for, and has been 'trained' by PWC Accountancy - and he's the last person I think would be able to run a business!

What results is a bunch of people who are too busy squabbling with each other and playing the tactical game to bother with the actual brief. From a business perspective, I preferred the first few series where fewer candidates had 'tactics' and just got on with it. There's also far too much obvious choppy editing going on now so it's impossible to know what's actually going on. It's still fairly entertaining to watch, but I do think it's gone down hill a bit recently - some of the tasks have become a bit repetitive too.

[roachcoach]

I guess Sugar has his own specific requirements in mind when he decides who to fire, and of course, we don't see the whole thing, just the edited results. But that, to my way of thinking, ought to have got the PM fired on it's own.

Beautifully played my Jim, though.

PM : I'm bringing Jim in.

Jim: That's wrong, it ought to be be Glenn.

PM: Okay, I'm bringing Glenn in.

Glenn: That's wrong. It shouldn't be me? What do you think, Jim?

Jim: The PMs made his decision and it's final.

That's a précis, not quotes, by the way. But I agreed with Karen when she said she, Nick and sugar were entirely gob-smacked when they watched that happen. How Leon didn't get fired on the spot amazes me. He'll have to buck his ideas up if he wants to last much longer.

I think it was a combination of facts including the guys didn't lose due to any single identifiable factor they were not all 100% behind so that makes bringing two in difficult (should be able to bring them all in imo). The PM didn't do that bad a job; sure, he changed his mind...not like Sugar hasn't done that at the last minute. He did a far better job than the girls PM, she just needs a damned good slapping (I concede perhaps its because her background is HR and I really don't get along with those happy-clappy types), rubs her team up the wrong way, ignores other people's opinions and its just about the most condescending person I've ever seen.

Although I think the biggest factor is Sugar HATES shirkers with a passion and something that caught my ear on watching was when it came to picking PM was that the guy that who was fired (despite being warned to get more in the forefront last week) deliberated ducked out. I don't recall the exact quote but it was along the lines of "I'm happy to take a back seat here". As soon as I heard that I thought he was on borrowed time, particularly since Nick picked up on it.

Its been something of a trend over the last few series, the moment a perception (rightly or wrongly) is formed that someone is hiding, the crosshairs settle firmly on them and it takes a lot to redirect them.

[TooNice]

Do people actually buy, or even download for free, the type of drivel these two bunches of muppets plan to peddle?

Weelll... I am thinking less than complimentary thing about the products from both teams (though push come to shove, I prefer the boys' product). Saying that, I -have- downloaded a "sound board" product in the past, so perhaps I can't be too judgemental about the concept.

I am a bit insomniac, and sometime, being able to drown out my own thought helps. However the type of music do not lend to sleep very well (maybe I should look for some lullaby ), so once I tried out an app with background noise of waves hitting the shore and that type of sound.

They got free development, free studio time and free publicity, and made a free app.

Similarly, in the first task, they had a free "base" (and if you count the three juicer they busted, the boy's team probably made a loss from the equipment), free bottles/containers and a place to sell.

----------

The Jedi comparison actually came to my mind before I watched "You're Fired", and I remember rewinding it just to see the master stroke. But in Leon's shoe, I would've had just as much trouble deciding who to bring back.

I wonder if we will ever see a contestant go "Actually, you know what? I screwed up as PM, I should have recognised this wasn't the right product, and since I saw everyone contribute and work hard, I am not willing to pick two other candidates and try to make them take the fall. So thank you for the opportunity, good evening gentlemen, goodbye", and leaves.

I am sure opinions would be split between "Well that's someone with integrity" and "With that attitude, he's got no chance in business", but it would be an interesting spin we've yet to see on this show

[santa claus]

I wonder if we will ever see a contestant go "Actually, you know what? I screwed up as PM, I should have recognised this wasn't the right product, and since I saw everyone contribute and work hard, I am not willing to pick two other candidates and try to make them take the fall. So thank you for the opportunity, good evening gentlemen, goodbye", and leaves.

I am sure opinions would be split between "Well that's someone with integrity" and "With that attitude, he's got no chance in business", but it would be an interesting spin we've yet to see on this show

You don't really expect anyone to walk out on the basis that they failed to successfully manage some trumped up task that has little to do with business and everything to do with the tv programme? You never know though; they're thick enough.

I'm not sure why a programme about limp-wristed, mistakingly self-assured, pompous, middle class, jolly hockeystick oafs is entertaining but it is made worth it to see them leave in incredulity and with a bruised ego. And to see how easily the dullards will change their minds when pushed by someone with a little bit of street savvy.

[TooNice]

I'd say that the "right" team won this week (and based on the task, the right person got the boot), though it was surprisingly close. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Jim. He hasn't been PM yet, but he's done well as sub-leader on two occasions, and I'd be surprised if he can't pull it off.

[MadduckUK]

It's like the internet doesn't exist

[roachcoach]

I'd say that the "right" team won this week (and based on the task, the right person got the boot), though it was surprisingly close. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Jim. He hasn't been PM yet, but he's done well as sub-leader on two occasions, and I'd be surprised if he can't pull it off.

Talks a legendary game, not seen much in the way of decision making from him though. I think the aides will defend him a lot.

To be honest, he deserves to win for episode 2 alone.

[Saracen]

....
I wonder if we will ever see a contestant go "Actually, you know what? I screwed up as PM, I should have recognised this wasn't the right product, and since I saw everyone contribute and work hard, I am not willing to pick two other candidates and try to make them take the fall. So thank you for the opportunity, good evening gentlemen, goodbye", and leaves.

I am sure opinions would be split between "Well that's someone with integrity" and "With that attitude, he's got no chance in business", but it would be an interesting spin we've yet to see on this show

My bet ... no, we won't.

Is it my imagination, or do I remember someone a couple of years back declining to bring three people into the boardroom and only taking two in, one being himself?

I seem to remember that decision as being either what got him fired, or what Sugar said got him fired. It's hard to know which is which.

I don't think Sugar is looking for integrity. Let me rephrase that. I'm sure he's not looking for people with a lack of integrity. He's not looking for those that will lie, cheat, and steal to win. But he is looking for those with initiative and drive, and within the bounds of at the very least what's legal, and within the bounds of what's acceptable in the business world, he's looking for people that will do what it takes to win, and not looking for some noble idiot to fall on their sword.

Sometimes, a certain amount of mea culpa will work with Sugar. If you've made a stupid goof, and it's obvious to all from the village idiot upwards that it's a stupid goof, then pretending it was a misunderstood bit of business genius is not going to endear you to him. But he seems quite willing to accept that even the best can make mistakes, and that providing you can both learn from it and don't make a lifetime hobby of committing one blunder after another, a mea culpa can be both the best tactic, and indeed, the only realistic option.

I remember Richard Branson (on another program) saying something like "the entrepreneur that has never made a mistake has never made anything".

With Sugar, a LOT depends on precisely what the mistake was. Often, and someone said it a few posts ago, these contestants seem to be so focussed on doing something that they miss the blindingly obvious (like the rules of the round), or they're so focussed on planning and preparation that they miss something obvious. As Sugar said, when someone's trying to sell you "rare tea" at nearly £1000, given their budgets, that alone ought to tell them to run a mile.

And if they'd watched previous episodes, they'd know you don't go hunting in world-class high-end shops for a bargain. The trick this time was to get both good quality, and good prices.

I can't believe the farce over the cloche. For a start, I'm surprised none of them knew what it was. They obviously aren't quite as worldly as they believe. But secondly, one of them rang the Ritz apparently believing that they'd disclose they procurement list. Far more productive would be to ring the Ritz, tell them they're students in a competition and are trying to find out what a cloche is, could they have a word with the catering manager, or head housekeeper for a couple of minutes please. The Ritz aren't likely to give out highly sensitive commercial information (like supplier details), but I don;t think the definition of a cloche is actually a military grade secret.



Technical note : They were somewhat ridiculed for thinking about a garden centre, but it's worth noting that you do get cloches for protecting plants. They were quite right about that. But "stainless steel"? Glass? Yes. Plastic? Yup. Metal? There's a delicate hint that it's something else that's meant. That was a classic common sense failure, and the first few hours appeared. at least as it was edited, as a classic example of more thinking and less frantic running around like headless chickens pretending that all activity is productive activity.

[roachcoach]

Bump and simultaneous

...wait...what?

[GheeTsar]

I think Jim's on borrowed time now. Shame - I like him, but I really don't think Sugar does.

Ellie was a bit of a non-entity for the show - so not surprised that she went. Slightly more surprised that Vincent went, just as he has slightly more entertainment value than many of the others and in the past that seems to have dictated firing order (partially).

[roachcoach]

I agree, although the aides seem to like him though, he might save himself if he puts a good PM performance in (if he lives that long).

That's what I didn't get - clearly he had it in his head to bullet Vincent anyway, why not fire a warning shot at Ellie and let her go. Seemed odd, although kudos to her for the exit taxi speech, one of the best.

[MadduckUK]

although kudos to her for the exit taxi speech, one of the best.

yup definetly

I understand exactly where Jim is coming from here and it makes me angry - there are notebooks full of ideas, most of them a lot worse than Jims "Every..." and yet because the team chose to run with THAT idea, it suddenly becomes his fault when it all goes pear shaped?

NO. He had the best idea, so if anyone is to blame then it is:

1. Everyone else for not coming up with something better
2. The PM for ignoring the research suggesting people didn't want an "every" product.

I actually think (read: hope) the show is just being edited to try and make Jim look bad so its a shock when he wins it. Because he is head and shoulders above everyone else on there.

Berated for coming up with an idea that didn't work just because it was chosen? Ridiculous

[GheeTsar]

Agreed. But I think Jim has a way of expressing himself in the boardroom that pisses Sugar off.

[MadduckUK]

Agreed. But I think Jim has a way of expressing himself in the boardroom that pisses Sugar off.

he only has an answer for everything because they all have answers.

at least this was a task that didnt scream "why dont you just bloody google it for gods sake!?" so i enjoyed it more