Fantastic Job Oppertunities

[killgORE]

Are hard to find...

Thats a dirty topic heading/message content trick I know. But It's eye catching. I finished my last uni Exam last Friday, and I have spent vast swathes of time in either withdrawl from study or looking/applying for decent jobs.

Side note. I am developing a chess game as an academic exercise. Partially planned now. It should be able to plugin to multiple presentation tiers, web, networked/standalone app, mobile phones etc. But thats just for fun. [this results from sudden withdrawl of pissy academic programs needing written].

Suppose my thread is asking for any tips for a young fella trying to get his first IT job.

Current technique is as follows. (and based on the 'spaced' flat hunting in London technique).

I wake up in the morning. Get the overnight jobs listings from various web sites and papers. Then I circle them all and phone them. Only to discover they have been taken by a bunch of psychic f---in' job hunters !

[Aaron]

Well, I've just got my first job in IT, as a graduate software engineer for Symbian. I did a degree in physics and then did a masters in applied mathematics and computing. Sadly, a lot of the top jobs are looking for more than just a BSc. these days - whether it be extra qualifications or some kind of experience.

If you can, get down your university careers centre. See what they think of your CV and get yourself a mock interview. Then continue doing what you're doing really - the more jobs you apply to, the higher the chances of you finding something.

Good luck, mate.

[iMc]

Sadly, a lot of the top jobs are looking for more than just a BSc. these days - whether it be extra qualifications or some kind of experience.

Thats what I was afraid of. I don't wanna have to do another course after my current one but its looking like I'll have too . That will double the student debt .

PS If a Mod could delete the above two posts and lower my post count by 2 that would be great. Sorry. Click on reply instead of edit... twice.

[Stoo]

I too feel your pain..

I'm stuck in the experience catch-22 at the moment, I've got 18+months from my industrial placement at uni, and a couple more months from various bit and bobs but it's still not enough

Then you get stupid $%&$%^^ like Norwich Union outsourcing all their IT jobs to bloody India which results in A) A whole bunch of out of work IT people with masses of experience who then hammer you at B) The resulting fewer jobs available from the out-sourcing..

I want to move out, but to do that I need a decent job, and to get the decent job I need more experience, to get the experience I need a decent job..

I've been at this for TWO YEARS already!

[TiG]

Yep you guys are right, the first job is the difficult one, i was where you are now 3 years ago, i'd been temping for 6-9months after finishing uni and that was so frustrating, but I got my lucky break at Trafficmaster as a Junior developer on 20K a year, moving on to pastures new now.

Some of the problems with IT is that some of it is about people you know, the Job market imo has learnt from its lessons of the tech boom where they want people with experience, they learnt you pay for what you get, you pay young people peanuts and you get monkeys.

Sorry guys its true, the issue is how to get round that, and believe me online job searches for Junior developers like you guys are not a good idea. You have to remember the company hiring you will then have to pay the job site, 25% of your salary or 4-11 grand in finders fee.

If you can apply direct to these companys do it, because that makes it cheaper for the company. Make sure you apply for the right jobs too, applying for anything more than about 22k and you won't get it without experience.

Good luck in your searches, and if you can't find anything go out and temp, ask the temping company to try and place you in technical companies so you can go speak to technical directors about jobs

TiG

[Zak33]

applying for anything more than about 22k and you won't get it without experience.
TiG

disagree (first time in months) with TiG on that one point....someone will get it...cheeky person, incredible bull ****er or similar....

always chance your arm....you NEVER know....

HOWEVER>....if you DO get it....everyone will hate you for not being good enough and BEING a chancer...but trust me...the world is FULL of chancers

[IBM]

How about putting up a 'Guns for Hire' forum. People with the skills who want some freelance work can put up a notice, and there might be people out there who need some work doing. I've been looking for freelance web designers and developers in the past...you never know, there may be others like me.

*Runs off screaming 'I'm not alone. I'm not alone.*

Honestly, would you want to work for me?

[TiG]

disagree (first time in months) with TiG on that one point....someone will get it...cheeky person, incredible bull ****er or similar....

always chance your arm....you NEVER know....

HOWEVER>....if you DO get it....everyone will hate you for not being good enough and BEING a chancer...but trust me...the world is FULL of chancers

Hehe, you entitled to disagree, you forget though that you are a sales man and i'm a technical IT guy, if i was interviewing someone, there is no way that i'd be bull****ted about whether they know their stuff or not, Or at least i certainly hope not.

I can't talk about Sales all i can talk about is IT, for me IT recruitment is about pure technical ability, salesmen is about bull**** and selling stuff that people don't want

Either way still wish the guys luck

TiG

[Paul Adams]

Graduated 7 years ago now, and realised the first job you take has to be "realistic" - start at the bottom and get some experience.

After a couple of years working in customer support (phone & pcAnywhere were my 9-5 life) we expanded the support team and I sat in on the interviews, and devised a quick & dirty test which instantly shows those who know their stuff vs those that blag.

Nothing at all wrong with having lofty long term goals, but your entrance into the world of working in IT has to be a bit humble - once you have some experience under your belt you will not only be able to command a higher salary but you will have a better idea of what exactly you want to do.

And the experience can be necessary for other reasons - work first line and deal with the customer directly and you'll get an understanding of their requirements and how a non-working system would impact them, something that a lot of developers or system admins have become distanced from.

7 years down the line, I now believe that I would never hire a graduate for any mid to high level responsibility position - and so many believe they should be walking straight into such a role.

[Stoo]

TiG, you should have a copy of my CV (emailed it a while ago) anything glaringly crap about it?

I've been rejected for the lower roles (e.g. over qualified for an ICT Tech at a local school, they didn't think I'd stay long enough), and obviously I can't get much further on from that from lack of real world experience (It seems 18 months isn't enough)..

[killgORE]

The experience thing is a pisser. I sent off CV's last summer and I got interviews with 100% of them. I wanted some experience before graduating.

I got 2 job offers that fell through. HOW annoyed was I !!>?!@ One of them was because they emailed my job offer to my uni email account. Though I had told them to use my other account. uni email is closed over the summer. It closed like 2 hours after the job offer arrived. Result => some other guy got to lord it over the web interfacing a legacy app. Shame really. It was dogs work but with lots of responsibility.

[Stoo]

Yep, I know what you mean, I've had 3 "sure-thing" jobs fall through at the last moment, there's bugger all temp work around here either

[Zak33]

.....if i was interviewing someone, there is no way that i'd be bull****ted about whether they know their stuff or not,

troo...but its rarely people like you who do the interview...in your NEW job, it is....or rather was for which I'm pleased cos it meant only you were EVER gonna get that job..

BUT..imagine your old boss trying to interview people for your old job...(forget the circumstances discussed elsewhere)

Your old boss is CLUELESS....as to what he NEEDS from a candidate...and THEREFORE.....I bet he'd fall for it.

IN FACT...if I was a TV director, I'd have YOU teach ME for 7 days and I'd BLUFF my way into your OLD job.

I give myself a 40-50 % chance of success..with NO FORMER KNOWLEDGE...as LONG as I was interviewed by your old boss.

[Aaron]

troo...but its rarely people like you who do the interview...in your NEW job, it is....or rather was for which I'm pleased cos it meant only you were EVER gonna get that job..

My experience was very different. I was invited to an assessment day - yes, a whole day (8:45am - 5:30pm) of assessment. There were about 25 applicants on the day and 25 the day before. The morning consisted of talks from various members of staff, from both the business and technical side of the company.

The afternoon was broken down into a technical interview (run by software engineers already at the company), a human resources interview and a series of psychometric tests (on syntax checking and diagramming).

Everyone was very competent and knew exactly what they were looking for. It scared the hell out of me, to be honest.

My main advice would be to just keep trying. I know what it's like to get rejection letter after rejection letter after rejection letter, all worded in exactly the same manner. It can be very depressing but you'll find something eventually if you keep your focus.

Also, you might consider doing some volunteer work. You could do odd-jobs for people who want IT assistance (website design, programming, etc) or do some volunteer work for a charity. Either way, it'll keep you sharp and look good on your CV.

[Angus]

Ironic thing is...

When we get older they'll start saying that we've got too much experience, that our degrees are too out of date.

[TiG]

Yes Zak, you are quite correct i could teach you in maybe 4 hours what to say to get my job, my current boss is no expert in this field and i'm the only one who knows how it works. As i know you, I would know what i would need to say to get you to understand stuff. But then you are a sales man and you could sell yourself.

One of the major problems with Stoo and you guys that have not been able to get a job straight after uni, is that you might be considured "damaged" goods, which in my opinion is why you are struggling now.

My old Job which is currently being advertised, You need experience to get it, simple as that.

Stoo - i'll go through with you on pm about your CV, don't feel it appropriate here.

Nice idea tho Zak

TiG