Grangemouth Plant Closes

[csgohan4]

Article here

this is about the petrol chemical plant closing due to workers being on strike and unwilling to agree to cost cutting measures to save the plant.

The workers are shocked, but should they be? A private company has to make a profit, it is not a charity. They cannot be held to ransom by workers and trade unions expecting much in this recessive climate.

Everyone else has taken paycuts and/or lost their jobs, it's the current climate. It's no longer boom days.

Why do people expect to get keep their job with the same wage structure if the company is struggling to balance books and needs to cut down on wages or worse, lay off people.

Isn't better to accept a wage cut and still have a job, than live on benefits and be unemployed.

Unfortuantely I feel Trade unions have too much power and fail to see both sides of the story and only focus on one thing.... power and money to workers with no regard for the companies their employees work for.. they are not cash cows, they also have to make money.

What do you think?

[HalloweenJack]

I wonder if those unions will now pay for the workers who have lost the jobs.... oh but they say its not OUR fault....


I work at a major retailer - and over the weekend - they had to lay off 30 people in 1 store, pretty much all of the new starters from 5 months ago - me though I transferred out but lots and lots wont have a job after this weekend. why? store wasn't taking enough money - by a lot , footfall is down , so they have to save a lot of money.

[TheAnimus]

Honestly unions in their current form are a cancer.

They work against democracy, see the funding of the Labour party and the fact its lead by Ed.

Over a century ago, we needed the idea of union representation to prevent exploitation, but look at what they have done in the last 50 years. It's utterly terrible.

To me, the real irony is how the unionistas ignore reality to make sure it someone else to blame but them, let's go on about Maggie Thatcher, rather than acknowledge that with any kind of economy, the enterprise has to be sustainable.

[pastymuncher]

Now we are going to be shafted with fuel prices. Bloody unions!! Can't they see that no company can afford to lose £10m a month?

[HalloweenJack]

don't worry - the SNP will survive with the oil industry! cant make petrol now but we have OIL!

[neonplanet40]

Were they ACTUALLY losing £10 million a month though and what were all the changes that they wanted to make? It could be that the cost cutting measures really were excessive? I won't form an opinion until I know all the facts.

[TheAnimus]

Were they ACTUALLY losing £10 million a month though and what were all the changes that they wanted to make? It could be that the cost cutting measures really were excessive? I won't form an opinion until I know all the facts.

Do you know the background to this?

In a nutshell, there was some crony, who Labour decided to try to get elected without any fair vote, because they get all their party funding from unions such as this one:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-23176525

This is completely despicable.

But the issue is, they got caught. So they decided to do the next best thing, which was to ensure their crony got more dosh for doing work against a free democratic society. The company got pissed, because why are they paying these pissants to not do any work for them? So they decided to try and not. This clearly shows that the big evil company are exploiting the little people. So the union decided to flex it's mussels, the problem is the company wasn't doing that well and is now in liquidation. Companies don't like to go into liquidation.

Obviously the unions will try and spin this to be somehow not a direct result of their actions. I for one say it is time we do away with these anti-democratic beasts and also, if possible reform party funding.

[neonplanet40]

Well as a teacher I do not agree that unions should be abolished. However having read up on the above, and further reading, these workers have shot themselves in the foot. Also though, the cuts proposed to pay and pensions etc was quite excessive in my opinion. Although still better than no job.

[TheAnimus]

Well as a teacher I do not agree that unions should be abolished.

Why?

Do you think the relationship they have with a major political party is for the betterment of the nation and its people? Let's not even get started on the co-operative bank...

However having read up on the above, and further reading, these workers have shot themselves in the foot. Also though, the cuts proposed to pay and pensions etc was quite excessive in my opinion. Although still better than no job.

No. 50% or so of them shot everyone in the foot. 50% just wanted to work, now they might not be able to. I wouldn't feel so outraged if it was a case of those effected being responsible, but it isn't. They ruined it for everyone.

[neonplanet40]

Why?

Do you think the relationship they have with a major political party is for the betterment of the nation and its people? Let's not even get started on the co-operative bank...

I have had a few councils try and cheat me and other new teachers out of nearly £1000 before. With the help of the union we all got every penny back. Also, in terms of advice in work regarding various issues our representative(also a full time teacher) has been excellent help. As for the politics, I am not bothered by them. I am just reporting on my personal experience with them.

[TheAnimus]

But that is the issue with personal experience rather an objective analysis (not saying mine is!). For example private legal insurance is about a tenner a year, and would probably have sufficed, a lot less than the union dues I assume.

Personally the way they fund labour is disgusting to me, I don't think anyone I'd class as decent could support such a thing.

[csgohan4]

I think Unions have too much power, but it doesn't mean they should be abolished, but rather common sense should be slapped onto these unions and that endless pay rises or one of their members gets suspended for doing something silly they all Strike is just not the way one should be like.

Gone are the days of 'You strike' I will get someone else to replace you permanently. Now it's all about tree hugging and filling in forms. We live in a society where we take work for granted and really it shouldn't be.

Yes we did our courses, Degrees e.t.c to get work, but it's also a two process, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, at least not the point where you lose your job and the company closes because you were stubbourn and listened to your Unions asking for unacceptable terms which the Company can't afford.

It's made worse that not everyone wanted to strike and actually wanted to work, now those people will also lose the jobs because of the Unions hold on other other's employees and their refusal to see between the lines and look at the bigger picture. All about money and greed now a days unfortunately, gone are the days when we took paycuts to save a company going under, now it's strike strike strike.

Sustainability is not in the Union's vocabulary

[directhex]

Bear in mind an extremely common tactic in Union negotiation cases is to allow the company to fold, then for the same management to buy it up again under a new name, allowing them to fire all existing staff without consequence. This was used e.g. for Hostess vs Bakers Union, in the USA.

[directhex]

Not to mention the sums don't add up, of course. Ineos say the plant is losing £10M/month. But the 800 workers taking even a £10K/year cut would only save £8M/yr.

But by all means, blame it on greedy unions.

[csgohan4]

Not to mention the sums don't add up, of course. Ineos say the plant is losing £10M/month. But the 800 workers taking even a £10K/year cut would only save £8M/yr.

But by all means, blame it on greedy unions.

But it's still significant enought to shut the plant, it's more than your pocket money for sure

[TheAnimus]

Bear in mind an extremely common tactic in Union negotiation cases is to allow the company to fold, then for the same management to buy it up again under a new name, allowing them to fire all existing staff without consequence. This was used e.g. for Hostess vs Bakers Union, in the USA.

Yes, hostess went bankrupt just to spite them...

You know that they haven't re-incorporated right? Last I heard the administrators had licensed the twinky brand, it was hardly a masterful tactic. The company was in dire straits, and in honesty I doubt that the workers taking cuts would have saved the firm.